JD450C Dozer will not move .

[Local]

JD450C

I just bought a 450C
It has some issues , all the bolts on the fwd cross bar are stretched , stressed and rusted pretty bad . The frame moves around alot .
But the primary issue is , It stopped moving .. The machine moved fine loading and unloading . I used it the day before 4/1/2021 and it worked great , pushed better than expected . Hydraulics strong and responsive . Next day . Wouldn't move . Check trans oil from dipstick under seat . After 5 to 15 minutes of shifting back and forth etc .
I Noticed it started to move better in reverse , then started moving in forward . Pushed more dirt , rock etc , strong no problems . day 3 wouldn't move again .... Eventually much slower than before would only go into high range . I drained trans and checked the filter . Filter is good on right side of trans with 3 bolts is clean . Drained 10 Gallons.
I am hoping it's a linkage problem from looking at the parts manual for the HL-R .
I will check the linkage on the left side trans direct from HL-R to see if it has proper movement .
Any way . I will post my findings . Any help and guidance will be appreciated. Also noticed the top case on the hydraulic clutch area under the seat leaks a fair amount aprox 15 drops per minute .
What do you guys think , any guidance will be appreciated .

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Local!

If I were in Hawaii I wouldn't want to work either

If your shift linkage checks out OK and your filters are clean then I would be checking the clutch adjustments. The H-L-R clutch adjustment is critical to the operation of that machine. Acquire the tech manual TM1102. It is essential. First thing I would be doing is checking the transmission pressure. Then while the gauge is connected to it I would be performing first the mechanical clutch adjustment and then the H-L-R clutch adjustment.

 

[lantraxco]

Welcome to HEF Local!

If I were in Hawaii I wouldn't want to work either

If your shift linkage checks out OK and your filters are clean then I would be checking the clutch adjustments. The H-L-R clutch adjustment is critical to the operation of that machine. Acquire the tech manual TM1102. It is essential. First thing I would be doing is checking the transmission pressure. Then while the gauge is connected to it I would be performing first the mechanical clutch adjustment and then the H-L-R clutch adjustment.

Is that one of the Deere machines where the fluid clutch is the first half of pedal movement and the second half is the mechanical clutch, for easier starting of the engine? Good chance the mechanical clutch has packed it in?

 

[Local]

Aloha ,
Thanks for the reply . I got a wet gauge today to set up for the trans pressure check. I adjusted the Manual Clutch free travel to 3.75 in per TM1102.
Yes this is the one that the first part of the pedal is the fluid clutch and bottom is mechanical .
Now It will take me a few days to get back to it do to our work schedule .
Yes
But I am anxious to find the problem . Thank You .

 

[Orest Anhel]

There is an interconnect between the engine clutch linkage and HLR linkage located in the bell housing that broke on my 1980 450C. Machine would move sometimes and then not.Luckily was able to manipulate it through the access bung for transmission test port on floorboard enough to drive machine out of the bush and load it on a truck to haul out for repair

 

[Local]

Okay back to the 450C .
My trans pressure was at 125psi ...
I added 2 pennies in the fwd right hand side access hole on the t trans to bump the pressure up to 165.
The free travel on the clutch however is turned almost as tight as it will go . If I loosen it the machine will not move .
I finally got it to move fwd and reverse . If I put it in fwd low I will eventually get a good lock in gear ,. I have to do this for about 10 minutes to get it to shift completely in gear in Hi-Lo and reverse . Once I finally get it shifting into gear correctly the my trans pressure is in Lo 115 , Hi 95 and reverse 160.
When I am trying to get it moving when it is cold , sometimes I can move the clutch pedal up and down about a 1/2 to 1 inch and the trans pressure will go up and then start to shift in gear .
If I let it set and idle for 5 or 10 minutes , I have to go thru the same process again , sometimes not as long . I have adjusted the needle valve to the highest pressure in the fwd and reverse gears . For the needle valve I am referring to the adjustment on the left side fwd housing access hole . Looks like a double nut 1/2 in or 9/16 . . Any ideas . Is the Hi-Lo-Rev clutches worn out ? Seems like it's and out of adjustment thing . I have the TM1102 but it is very vague to me . It seems to skip around and different writers call the same thing different names .
I tried to upload some videos , but unable from my present location . I will try when I get home , faster internet .

 

[Local]

There is an interconnect between the engine clutch linkage and HLR linkage located in the bell housing that broke on my 1980 450C. Machine would move sometimes and then not.Luckily was able to manipulate it through the access bung for transmission test port on floorboard enough to drive machine out of the bush and load it on a truck to haul out for repair

Can you tell me more about this .... I am getting frustrated with this machine . There are no Old JD mechanic's where I am at . I just don't have enough experience with this type of set up . Maybe I could have better luck with a parts manual . At least I can see all the different mechanisms .

 

[mg2361]

Can you tell me more about this .... I am getting frustrated with this machine .

Make sure you follow the procedure exactly as outlined in section 70, group 20, pages 6 and 7 in the System Testing section. Once the engine clutch free pedal has been adjusted then the HLR clutch adjustment needs to be performed. That adjustment is critical to the transmission operation and it will affect transmission pressure. Has that adjustment been performed?

 

[Local]

Is that one of the Deere machines where the fluid clutch is the first half of pedal movement and the second half is the mechanical clutch, for easier starting of the engine? Good chance the mechanical clutch has packed it in?

Yes , It's like a 2 part system . The freeplay is at the top but also control the fluid flow . That seems to be working . The pressure does go down when I push the pedal in about 1 to 2 inches . then to actually change the transmission gears from 1 thru 4 , you have to push all the way down .

 

[Local]

Make sure you follow the procedure exactly as outlined in section 70, group 20, pages 6 and 7 in the System Testing section. Once the engine clutch free pedal has been adjusted then the HLR clutch adjustment needs to be performed. That adjustment is critical to the transmission operation and it will affect transmission pressure. Has that adjustment been performed?

Hi .... Yes , I did everything by the book , I set the freeplay , I had to adjust the trans pressure by adding another penny in the spring housing on the top right access hole with a 15/16th wrench . I ran the tractor back and forth until it will shift into HLR . It takes about 10 minutes to finally get it to lock in . I tried to upload these videos on this site but I guess they are not compactable . Sometimes I noticed if I move the clutch pedal in and out really slow the trans pressure will come up about 10 psi and that help to get it to move .
My trans pressure is about 175 at 1800 rpm
Low gear is 120
hi is 95
reverse is 120 sometimes bumping up to 160 with a solid reverse lock in .
When the trans is cold the trans pressure is 215 after warm up is when I start running the numbers posted .
1...I changed the front trans filter by the radiator ,
2...removed and cleaned the right hand lower trans screen, with the three bolts ,
3...reserviced with AW68 hydraulic oil , Do you think this is to thick ?
4...added 2 pennies to the trans oil pressure adjustment right side trans top access hole .
5...adjusted metering valve in top left trans access hole with half or 9/16 socket , while running . I took it both ways , all the way down and up until the pressure didn't move anymore .
Let me know what you think ... Aloha

 

[Local]

Yes , It's like a 2 part system . The freeplay is at the top but also control the fluid flow . That seems to be working . The pressure does go down when I push the pedal in about 1 to 2 inches . then to actually change the transmission gears from 1 thru 4 , you have to push all the way down .

I would be much happier if it was only the mechanical clutch but when it finally does start to function it's a great little machine , pushing and turning great . So i am puzzled .

 

[77Ford]

Is the oil you just put in straight hydraulic fluid? When I read AW68 I think of simply hydraulic fluid, the transmission, steering clutches, etc are going to want more of a transmission fluid. I run :
Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard

Heavy-Duty On-Road, Heavy-Duty Off-Road Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard HD may be used in hydraulic systems alone, or in combination with hydraulic-transmission systems. It is recommended for most makes of tractors and has been formulated for better performance in axle lubricant applications. Dyna-Plex 21C Trac Gard HD is specially formulated to be oxidation and rust resistant. Gears and bearings are protected, even in extreme applications. Its multi-viscosity ensures superior pumpability at low start-up temperatures and provides excellent body at high operating temperatures.

I dunno it's a bit of a long shot but if you are using straight hydraulic fluid and you ever drain it, I'd get something closer to what I've mentioned a hydraulic-transmission fluid. I use it for everything in my 450C.

 

[PNW1020D]

Is the oil you just put in straight hydraulic fluid? When I read AW68 I think of simply hydraulic fluid, the transmission, steering clutches, etc are going to want more of a transmission fluid. I run :
Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard

Heavy-Duty On-Road, Heavy-Duty Off-Road Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard HD may be used in hydraulic systems alone, or in combination with hydraulic-transmission systems. It is recommended for most makes of tractors and has been formulated for better performance in axle lubricant applications. Dyna-Plex 21C Trac Gard HD is specially formulated to be oxidation and rust resistant. Gears and bearings are protected, even in extreme applications. Its multi-viscosity ensures superior pumpability at low start-up temperatures and provides excellent body at high operating temperatures.

I dunno it's a bit of a long shot but if you are using straight hydraulic fluid and you ever drain it, I'd get something closer to what I've mentioned a hydraulic-transmission fluid. I use it for everything in my 450C.

100% agree per my research and knowledge gained. The stuff you (Local) listed is what I put into my mini excavator.

 

[Local]

Make sure you follow the procedure exactly as outlined in section 70, group 20, pages 6 and 7 in the System Testing section. Once the engine clutch free pedal has been adjusted then the HLR clutch adjustment needs to be performed. That adjustment is critical to the transmission operation and it will affect transmission pressure. Has that adjustment been performed?

Hi .... I did this exactly by the book as per my understanding but still isn't functioning properly until the back and forth and small peddle movements are made . I will try to make a youtube video so you can see what I am talking about . I'll go out and record a few minutes to see if it makes any sense . I don't mind fixing it but I am not sure where to go so far . I hope and pray that it's just an adjustment .

Thank you

 

[Local]

Is the oil you just put in straight hydraulic fluid? When I read AW68 I think of simply hydraulic fluid, the transmission, steering clutches, etc are going to want more of a transmission fluid. I run :
Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard

Heavy-Duty On-Road, Heavy-Duty Off-Road Dyna-Plex 21C Premium Trac Gard HD may be used in hydraulic systems alone, or in combination with hydraulic-transmission systems. It is recommended for most makes of tractors and has been formulated for better performance in axle lubricant applications. Dyna-Plex 21C Trac Gard HD is specially formulated to be oxidation and rust resistant. Gears and bearings are protected, even in extreme applications. Its multi-viscosity ensures superior pumpability at low start-up temperatures and provides excellent body at high operating temperatures.

I dunno it's a bit of a long shot but if you are using straight hydraulic fluid and you ever drain it, I'd get something closer to what I've mentioned a hydraulic-transmission fluid. I use it for everything in my 450C.

Thank you for the input .... Its worth a shot ... Maybe this AW68 is to thick . It still seems to be the same before I drained it to clean the screen and the front filter .

 

[Welder Dave]

I think you want to use an oil that meets the JD spec. for your machine. Straight hyd. oil isn't generally the proper oil for transmissions and AW 68 is probably too thick. It costs more but might be worth using the correct JD oil.

 

[mg2361]

I noticed if I move the clutch pedal in and out really slow the trans pressure will come up about 10 psi and that help to get it to move .

This tells me the HLR clutch is not quite adjusted correctly.