JD 310C Dashboard Filter Light stays on too long when first starting.

[joeeye59]

My John Deere 310C Dash Light for the hyd. Filter (yellow) stays on when cold.

Not sure what to make of this problem; (In short) the dash board yellow light indicating a hyd. filter issue comes on with cold starts. more so in the Winter, during the Summer it does not stay on as long, then as the machine reaches operating temp it fades away from intermittently coming on, meaning with low idle light is off, raise idle a bit it comes on, when it nears operating temp less and less light until it reaches no more light.

I've been using the machine like this for a little while, but I wanted to figure this out in case I'm doing damage some how, I go on and explain more in detail with a longer story about this issue below.

I took apart 3 Hydraulic Filters after several operating hours on each filter, I'll guess between 3 to 8 hours on each filter I took apart, so I wanted to get a good look at each filter paper element to see if there was any flakes of shinny metal, I used a very strong magna-fine glass to get a deep look into the filter paper element and found nothing, I also looked for non-shinney metal fragments in the filter paper, nothing, it all looked clean as can be, just a little bit of a dark soot like color in the filter, but for the most part fluid could clearly pass through it very easy, so not sure why the yellow hyd filter warning light?

It is common for the switch that sets off the filter light to go bad and not work properly?

I thought about something mechanical having gone bad putting metal flakes into the filter clogging it, this is why I took apart 3 filters, I never seen what a filter would look like when it does capture metal fragments? is it very obvious to see? so I'm not sure if this is hard to detect at first.

The hyd pump seems fine, everything works, perhaps the hyd pump could be a little weak because at times the stabilizers can use some help, but other than that everything else works fine.

I should make a sound file for people to listen to this unit operate, because ever since I got the machine I've always heard the sound of the hyd fluid flowing and the pump operating. I should have a mechanic listen to it because I might not have the ear for detecting a good sound from a bad.

I have a few hyd pistons what are slowly leaking from what looks to be age, one more so than the rest.

This is why I took the hyd filters apart thinking perhaps something like the hyd pump could be on its way out clogging each of the filters I put on, because every time I put a new filter on it corrects the dash light from staying on for a little while, then things are working properly and it goes right back to the filters dash light coming back on.

Anybody have any input as to whats can be going on with this? can I really be missing some kind of fragments clogging the filter I'm not seeing? but I swear the paper in the filter looks great.

I'm yet to study this in more detail, like the hyd filter switch and if it can be cleaned?

All input is appreciated,

Sincerely,

Joe

 

[lantraxco]

Any indication of water in the hydraulic oil? Have you changed out the hydraulic oil? Could be your filter is trapping water out of the oil, I doubt you would be able to see it.

 

[joeeye59]

Any indication of water in the hydraulic oil? Have you changed out the hydraulic oil? Could be your filter is trapping water out of the oil, I doubt you would be able to see it.

Great! thanks for the help lantraxco,

Not long ago I was having trouble with a jittery hydraulic piston movement under a load, after using the machine like that for a long time with that problem. I found with the help of the great guys on this forum that it was a loose hose that comes off the hyd fluid storage box that became loose, so that line fed hyd fluid to the main hyd pump, it was sucking up air as well as hyd fluid, and I'm sure over time it put a lot of water in the hyd fluid.

I know how motor oil reacts to air and water being mixed in with it.

But I don't know how hyd fluid reacts to being contaminated with air and water.

I would have figured for sure I'd see foamy hyd fluid here and there, but like your saying lantraxco the filter could be removing water, so thats would explain why no foamy fluid.

I'll take a fine look at the fluid, if I find fine bubbles of water this machine with never stop amazing me how complex it happens to be lol...

 

[lantraxco]

After the machine has set overnight at least, try loosening the hyd tank drain plug with a small container under it, see if the first thing you get is a bit of water. Quality hyd oil should allow water to settle out over time and collect at the bottom of the tank. When you run the machine it mixes back in to the oil as it circulates.

Hydraulic oil will absorb a fair bit of moisture before it turns cloudy or thickens up, you won't see bubbles or globules of water. Air does cause bubbles or foam and will usually settle out as long as the system isn't sucking in air somewhere, either in a suction line or at rod packing on cylinders during certain functions.

I believe the only switch for the light is screwed into the top of the filter housing and senses the pressure drop across the filter element, if you think it's defective it's probably not too spendy to replace. Basically when oil is cold, obviously it doesn't want to flow through the filter, and also of course if for some reason the filter is restricted. The light is telling you there's too much pressure across the filter element and rather than destroy the element, a safety valve is allowing unfiltered oil to bypass the element. As the oil heats up it thins, but if the filter is trapping moisture aside from the oil being thinner it may carry some of the trapped water on through the element reducing the restriction.

Hydraulic oil has to be hot to drive off moisture, and even then you only get rid of the water vapor in the air space above the oil in the tank, when air flows out of the breather filter. By the way, look for the breather filter inline in a hose coming off the hyd tank, I think it's bolted to the frame. Make sure the breather is clean and the arrow is pointing to the reservoir, and also check that the open end of the hose is clean and hopefully somewhere it's not likely to suck in dirt or mosisture.

Might be a good idea to drop in to any decent heavy equipment dealer and pick up an oil sampling kit, clean the tank drain plug area as best you can and after running get a sample of the hyd oil. Lab will tell you in a few days if it has either water or particulate matter in it, probably cost less than one filter element.

Cheers,
Lanway

 

[joeeye59]

Some news has come to light as to the possibility on why the HYD. Filter Light stays on when cold; I learned I'm using the wrong Hydraulic Filter, I have always replaced filters with what I take off, but in my case someone used the wrong filter before me.

I have been using WIX 51565 which is the wrong filter, I cross reference this mistake several times to be sure, I'm suppose to be using WIX 57606 Hydraulic Filter.

I compared the two filter specs and they are different, mainly in the media micron, the wrong filter is 8 micron, the correct filter is 18 micron, right there I would believe will correct this issue because of such a difference in microns.

So my JD 310c is suppose to be using the WIX 57606 Hydraulic Filter.

I'm going to fix this and see if this fixes my Hyd. Filter light being on when its cold, then post back.

Just to mention again, the specs were on the wrong filter the media micron said 8 and correct filter the micron is 18, Burst Rate 610 on the wrong filter, correct filter says 800.

Oh yeah!!! I'm still going to do all the checks for the water in the hyd fluid, I haven't ruled that out just yet.

 

[Deon]

joeeye59,
My 310 D does the same thing but only during winter months. I don't remember if I posted this question or if someone else did but I remember someone answered that cold oil cold not flow through the filter but will be bypassed instead thus triggering the light. Who ever replied wrote that it is normal and not to worry about it so I haven't. I'm sure that a smaller micron filter or a dirty one will cause more restriction and the light will be on longer and / or more often. But once warmed up the oil will get filtered and trap any particles as you use the machine.

 

[joeeye59]

Another observation; I see where the Hyd. Filter spins on the actual bypass valve is right there above the filter, and not part of the filter like most cars have with their engine oil filters having a relief valve built right into the actual filter.

Perhaps that internal seal is bad on the bypass, or dirty in there, or just worn out? I don't know, is this typical that the parts wear out?

Some say don't worry about the Hyd filter light being on when its cold, I can't do that, because for a few years that light never use to come on. So now that it's coming on I have too much invested in this machine to ignore this. Who knows with light on or off if all or any part of the hyd fluid gets filtered if this valve is not working right?

Not sure if this image shows up of the Bypass Valve.

http://jdpc.deere.com/pimages/TP22/TP22784________UN01JAN94.gif

 

[hookedondiesel]

Numbers 4 to 9 is the relief valve for the bypass,
take that apart and check it for crap etc, ( if you haven't done so already).

 

[joeeye59]

Numbers 4 to 9 is the relief valve for the bypass,
take that apart and check it for crap etc, ( if you haven't done so already).

Yeah I'll get to all that checking and taking apart of the by-pass valve. It will be a few months before I'm able to work on the backhoe. The temp today is 12º and snow all over the ground. (hope to build a garage some day).

 

[Sonic Dad]

Hello - I know this is an old thread (apologies for resurrecting it), but since I have a somewhat similar problem with my 310C, I'm wondering - joeeye59, were you able to figure out your issue and get it resolved?

The warning light on my 310C does not come on at startup - but as soon as I put the reverser lever into either forward or reverse - then the hydraulic warning light comes on and the warning buzzer beeps loudly. Put the reverser back into neutral and you can operate any of the hydraulic functions (backhoe, loader, stabilizers, etc.) just fine with no warning light, no buzzer. Put the machine into either forward or reverse and the light comes on immediately and stays on and the warning buzzer beeps until you put the reverser back in neutral. Doesn't seem to matter whether the machine is warm or not. Any ideas?