Is anyone having any problems with the new Cat 285/275 CTLs?

[pumkinhead]

Measure the maximum gap between the top edge of the coupler and the ground on both sides of the coupler.
Compare the measurements and determine the difference in the measurements. A gap difference that is less than or equal to 6 mm (0.24 inch) is within tolerance.

Judging by the gap you have on the one side at the stops I would image it has more than a quarter inch difference between the two sides of the coupler and the ground

 

[KSSS]

The bogus 1/2" spec. appears to me that Cat knows there's a problem and are trying to limit the number of loader arms they need to replace. Skid steers/CTL's are used for precision work. That's why they're so popular. You can see exactly what the bucket is doing. The spec. should be no more than 1/8". The loader arms should should be against the frame on both sides when lowered all the way in float position. If there's a a bunch of loaders with ****** up arms there should be a mandatory recall. If not then a class action suit should be filed. I'd bet cheap Chinese machines have more level buckets. Cat's jig or welding procedure for the arms is flawed. Perhaps they come out of the jig too soon or the welding isn't done equally on each side. If welding was confined to one side/area and then the other the heat input could certainly warp the arms, especially if done with welding robots. The arms should be checked for straightness after welding and straightened or rejected long before they ever go on the machine. Definitely not an isolated problem if another 4 new machines have the problem at the same dealer. Machines costing close to 100K should have pretty strict quality control.

I don't know exactly what these machines cost, but I bet its well over 100k. I would guess that the 285 is a 150K machine. Not that it should matter.

I also thought an 1/8 inch of tolerance would be a reasonable amount of variance. Would be interesting to know what other OEM's have for a spec tolerance. Having so much variance in their spec, and the fact that they already did the line boring, I don't see any real hope of getting this fixed with new loader arms. Unless maybe the arms wont seat as called out in the spec document, I think they are done.

 

[AMBMike]

Measure the maximum gap between the top edge of the coupler and the ground on both sides of the coupler.
Compare the measurements and determine the difference in the measurements. A gap difference that is less than or equal to 6 mm (0.24 inch) is within tolerance.

Judging by the gap you have on the one side at the stops I would image it has more than a quarter inch difference between the two sides of the coupler and the ground

I have posted several pictures up thread showing these measurements. The pics aren't that great but the difference is (was) a little over a 0.25". The difference in the bucket cutting edge measurements was a little over an inch.
The shim they installed on the stop is right at 0.25". As expected measuring showed the further away from the arm we checked the bigger gap distance there was side to side.

I don't know exactly what these machines cost, but I bet its well over 100k. I would guess that the 285 is a 150K machine. Not that it should matter.

I also thought an 1/8 inch of tolerance would be a reasonable amount of variance. Would be interesting to know what other OEM's have for a spec tolerance. Having so much variance in their spec, and the fact that they already did the line boring, I don't see any real hope of getting this fixed with new loader arms. Unless maybe the arms wont seat as called out in the spec document, I think they are done.

Definitely over $100k...

I've also wondered what other OEMs spec. I'm also curious about the spec on the Cat D3 series CTLs/skids. I've heard they had some issues with the arms on those on first release but can't confirm.

I think at this point the line boring work did more to hurt us then help as far as any further help from Cat.

We really like the machine otherwise. I may post a review about it if there's interest. It has over 130 hrs at this point.

We did expect a few hiccups with a first run machine but also expected product support from the manufacturer

 

[Welder Dave]

You should get a new machine or new arms. Nothing else is a satisfactory fix! I wasn't sure how much they cost as it's way too much for me.

 

[RayF]

Has the height of the boom mount bores on the machine itself been checked from one side to the other?

 

[AMBMike]

Has the height of the boom mount bores on the machine itself been checked from one side to the other?

Yes. They are correct.

 

[RayF]

Sounds as though your dealer is incompetent so you either get someone who know what they are doing to fix it or try and get a replacement from Cat.
I don't really get it. It's a 10 minute job to put some bars through the bores and check them with a level, and you can tell exactly where it is twisted.

 

[AMBMike]

Sounds as though your dealer is incompetent so you either get someone who know what they are doing to fix it or try and get a replacement from Cat.
I don't really get it. It's a 10 minute job to put some bars through the bores and check them with a level, and you can tell exactly where it is twisted.

According to the dealer, Cat won't touch it until they have a lot of complaints.

The dealer did have a new set of arms delivered to their shop but they weren't installed because "they wouldn't fix the problem"... Kind of a vague answer and open to interpretation...

The line boring was done by the dealer, apparently on their dime, despite us telling them we did not want it done. They are telling us Cat hasn't been any help at all up to this point.

I talked to our operations manager about it recently and it appears we're just going to live with it for now...
It certainly is disappointing watching the arms twist and flex when the bucket is cycled due to the misalignment from intentionally line boring the bucket out of square relative to the arms.

We really like the machine otherwise. My only other complaint with it so far is it doesn't hold a full jug of DEF.

 

[RayF]

If it's twisting and flexing now, it will fail sooner or later.

 

[AMBMike]

If it's twisting and flexing now, it will fail sooner or later.

Undoubtedly.

It'll be interesting when that happens since I doubt this "fix" was authorized by Cat. I don't see Cat being willing to warranty it. The dealer says they'll stand behind it but who knows ...

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd be calling Cat constantly and/or telling the dealer you want new proper arms or a new machine. Even if it's only one machine it's still unacceptable. Cat has to take responsibility! What is your Cat salesman doing for you? He should be fighting hard for you too. It's not a cheap overseas POS but might as well be with with %$#@ ed up lift arms.

 

[Dan Watrous]

The problem is that CAT is not interested in being a construction equipment manufacturer right now.
CAT is interested in making huge generators for data centers where they can make as much profit as they want due to lack of supply.

 

[Nige]

The problem is that CAT is not interested in being a construction equipment manufacturer right now.
CAT is interested in making huge generators for data centers where they can make as much profit as they want due to lack of supply.

I'm not entirely sure that is correct. Cat don't manufacture the size of generators that would be required to run something like a data centre, that's more in the realm of companies such as Wartsila.

Our power plant products - Engine generating sets - Wärtsilä Energy

Wärtsilä offers a wide variety of solutions for different industries. Find the best engine generating set for your power plant.

www.wartsila.com

 

[AMBMike]

The upper pin of the bucket cylinders on this 285XE are sealed and filled with oil or grease of some kind and are designed to be "maintenance free". There is no instruction about or even a mention of these joints in the manual.
I had asked the service guys at the dealer about it when we purchased the machine and they knew nothing about it either. They later confirmed to me that they are indeed designed to be maintenance free.

Anyway, here we are at 400 hrs and the left side is leaking as shown in the picture.
I'm wondering if this is a consequence of the arm racking due to the line boring the dealer did as mentioned up thread or if we have reached the service life of this system.

My only experience with this type of pin is on Liebherr track loaders at a previous employer that used a maintenance free joint at the bottom pin on the bucket. Those were of a different design but for us they lasted about 2000 hrs before leaking.

This may be another chapter in the saga of the "nothing wrong with the loader arms" machine...

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[pumkinhead]

 

[AMBMike]

View attachment 353338

Thanks.
It looks like that is dated a couple months before we received our machine.

 

[KSSS]

CASE has been running a maintenance free bushing in that same location on their machines since 2011. I have never had an issue with them. My beat is if yours is starting to fail it has something to do with the loader arm geometry change that the dealer did with the repin. My DL550 which is about the equivalent of the 285, that does take grease.

 

[CM1995]

The upper pin of the bucket cylinders on this 285XE are sealed and filled with oil or grease of some kind and are designed to be "maintenance free". There is no instruction about or even a mention of these joints in the manual.
I had asked the service guys at the dealer about it when we purchased the machine and they knew nothing about it either. They later confirmed to me that they are indeed designed to be maintenance free.

Anyway, here we are at 400 hrs and the left side is leaking as shown in the picture.
I'm wondering if this is a consequence of the arm racking due to the line boring the dealer did as mentioned up thread or if we have reached the service life of this system.

My only experience with this type of pin is on Liebherr track loaders at a previous employer that used a maintenance free joint at the bottom pin on the bucket. Those were of a different design but for us they lasted about 2000 hrs before leaking.

This may be another chapter in the saga of the "nothing wrong with the loader arms" machine...

Merry Christmas to all!
View attachment 353335

What has the dealer said about the issue?

 

[Nige]

What has the dealer said about the issue?

I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

 

[AMBMike]

What has the dealer said about the issue?

I noticed this Wednesday evening which was Christmas Eve. I notified my boss but I don't believe they had time to contact the dealer.

I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what their response is. They told us they would stand behind any problems that developed from the line boring geometry problems... We'll see i guess...

I do have a question about the composite bearings @pumkinhead posted up thread in post #75. Are they actually oil or grease filled like I assumed and the dealer service department confirmed or are they an oil impregnated material that doesn't have any actual fluid to seep out? I know there are seals at each end of the bearing but I can't get a good look at them without removing the circlip and spacer.
Maybe I'm second guessing myself here but I guess it's theoretically possible that a small bit of grease from somewhere else could have landed at that exact spot without leaving any sign around the joint??? I'd consider this theory somewhat more plausible if I hadn't been working in a wide open area with no brush or trees within a quarter mile and if I'd actually been working with the arms and bucket more than 5 feet above ground level ...