International 250b

[CavinJim]

I sold my JD 555 with a 4:1 bucket two years too soon! We ended up buying another place that's 7 acres of yard and 81 acres of trees. I'm planning some work (clearing a few acres, building a tractor road, and probably another pond if the geology allows) that's too big for my little JD 350 so I've been searching for a much larger machine. I had a JD 555 and I'm sure that would even be too small. I'm looking to spend under 15K, so an older, used machine it will be. I'm not afraid of wrenching (had to rebuild most of the 350's rear end) but I also don't want a "fix it more than use it" machine. Been there. So, in the search I found what looks like a potential good buy. It's an International 250b, 200 hours on a rebuilt engine, and a Drott 4:1. I've spoken with the owner and he doesn't know a lot about it, he's had it for a few years and put about 100 hrs on it. Claims it runs great and has plenty of power, From the photo I've seen it looks to be in excellent shape. I can't imagine it has the original paint, but the loader still has the "Drott Skid Loader" sign! It looks like it's been stored inside for the last 45 years. I'll be looking at it this weekend and measuring the undercarriage wear and checking what I can. I know that parts for these old beauties are really hard to find and are pricey, but for 10K delivered..... Am I delusional? I'm set on a 4:1 loader and they're hard to find in these parts. Just passed up on a Cat 955L with 8900 hours going for 14,500 (and going up!). The 955 looked like it had been rode hard. I'm not in a big hurry, but if the 250b is a good buy I'd rather not pass it up. I've put 250 hours on my 350, I can't imagine I'll put more than 500 to 1000 on whatever I get, so I'm not too concerned with undercarriage condition, as long as it's not throwing tracks! Any 250 owners out there-- I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Cavin

 

[DMiller]

One caution on the rails these series machines had two possibilities, 8.0 and 8.5 rails, Cat used the 8.5 with a few using 8.0, track pads may be harder to find. Measure across five pins(four links) should either be 30 or 34 inches(8.0 and 8.5) will get you working on it. 30 7/8" is max on 8.0, just under 35(34.9) for the 8.5. I like the old Dresser IH units, engine parts still plentiful, some undercarriage, strong machines and quite a few still in boneyards for picking up odds and ends.

 

[DMiller]

Need to amend my last statement, it could also have 7.5 rails which in a pinch could possibly use 7.484 Deere or CAT but no longer made as 7.5.

 

[CavinJim]

Thanks, DMiller, for your input. I've been trying to find dimensions for any part of the 250 so I can measure the track pitch, but haven't found a thing. Guess I'll head over to Red Power and ask there. I keep debating whether to go for this machine now or to wait and see if a better option comes along. Provided the IH is in good shape. I'd almost rather look for a JD 755 but I've heard to many bad things about the hydrostatic drives.

 

[DMiller]

Others have had luck both ways on the older Deere Hydrostats, I tried a few in test runs and did not like the way they operated nor the heat generated. may have just been too old and well worn machines but each one I ran just reinforced I did not want one. If the rails are in good order, the engine does not have severe leaks of oil fuel or water, looks to have been well maintained the IH should last as long for you as any of the old machines.

 

[CavinJim]

Finally got a chance to look over the 250 today. One curiosity is that it looks like a "c" was painted over behind the "250" decals. Were the 250c's (early ones) labeled with a small "c"? I haven't found any photos to show that. The serial # label is only partly legible--the stamping was consistently shallow on the left side so only partial numbers show. Anyhow:

The good: Engine seems to be in very good shape, less than 200 hours (m/l) on a rebuild, no smoke, sounds like a modern, high-power diesel at full-throttle. No engine leaks apparent, and the coolant is clean. Cylinder rods are perfect (no rust). The tracks are around 75% (newish single-bar grousers, which is wrong for this machine), 4-links measure 30.25" which implies a little wear on 7" pitch. Bushings are nearly round. It looks like someone replaced the track chain, pads, and sprockets.

The mediocre: There are several hydraulic leaks (hoses, cylinders), an expected nuisance for a machine this age and overall probably fewer than there could be!

The bad: It hasn't seen a grease gun in who knows how long. The bucket and lift-arm bushings are all bone-dry. There's water in the hydraulic oil (looks kinda like chocolate milk--checked before engine start) and the hydraulic oil was low (due to the leaks) and so the response was sluggish. The bottom rollers are shot--who knows when the lube level was checked and they are so worn they are riding on the pin bosses more than the rails! Apparently the rollers were not replace when the track was serviced, so the old rollers have nearly ruined a great track chain. The chain is usable as-is, but I wouldn't want to put more than a few hours use on it without replacing the rollers. The left final leaks around the inner seal (axle?)--and both sides leak around the dowels (minor, probably, who knows when the lube level was checked....). The steering seemed unresponsive and slow--but I found it improved at 3/4 throttle but improved at full throttle (but I do not want to have to run this machine at full-throttle). The powershift seemed to respond sluggishly--the pressure gauge is broken and the TC temp barely reached the lowest green level. I may be mistaken, but aren't the steering clutches hydraulically boosted? At least it looks that way. If the hydraulic oil is low and the system spongy, would that be reflected in the poor steering response?

Am I right in thinking this machine isn't worth $10K? Another $2K to $3K would probably transform it into a reliable work-horse (I don't have much worries about the engine). It would do everything I need--and more (it might be over-kill!), but can you really have "too big"? Any thoughts, anyone? I'm tempted to hold out for a good, heavy dozer, with a six-way if I can find one, but I've found the 4-in-one loaders to be so much more versatile.

 

[DMiller]

That would be 7.5 rails. My Allis has 7.0 and at 29" spread are shot. Those are around 65-70% save the rollers around 30.5 inches is close to max for 7.5 rail. I would do a search on the Dresser and aftermarket undercarriage suppliers to see if the rollers are even still available, with hydraulics/trans issues that would be a game caller for me if they are not. Get fluids filled and full try I again, if still sluggish shift/steer I would walk as trans repairs will eat you alive on this. As far as a maximum, do not pay over $8 if does work well after fluids filled.

 

[CavinJim]

Meant to type "7.5" for the rails, my oops. The seller is not eager to sell and won't budge off $10 so it's an easy "no thanks" for me. I'm not in a hurry so will keep searching.... I think a 655 Deere with a 4 in 1 would be the machine of choice, but those are hard to find.

 

[DMiller]

555G is still a large volume availability track unit, Good little tractors and pretty versatile with a MP or 4/1 bucket. Many came with tool mount on the rear to either mount a hoe or a ripper and they do somewhat OK with either. Not that much smaller then a 655 and not hydrostat either. Lots of 755 units on the market, are hydrostat but a decent operational test drive would show out if problems and lots of parts available thru even the AG dealers.

 

[CavinJim]

You just described the unit I sold last year! Except my 555 was just that, it hadn't graduated to a lettered machine. Had a 4-in-1 with the backhoe. Yes, it is a very capable machine, and relatively easy to work on. I had to redo the water pump seals and bearings, and the parts were inexpensive and just a little bit of inconvenient to install. Sold it too soon... but it would be pushed to the max to do what I need, and I don't like stressing machines quite that much, especially the older ones. My projects are split evenly between what would be best for a six-way blade (road building and some grading work) and what would be better with a bucket (clearing and pond building--though the pond building is rather far down on the list). If the right dozer came available with a ripper, I'd go for it. I'd even go for an excavator with a thumb! But those tend to be out of my price range (which is up to about $15K. The clearing I need to do is mostly small trees (but too big for my 350) with some larger oaks mixed in. It's all oaks, hickory, and cedar. And rocks, of course. Your in Missouri, you know what the Ozarks are like! I tend to prefer JD because we have a very good dealer in Rolla--they've always managed to get parts for me, quickly and affordably. I just need to show up with a part number list, and they order it (oddly enough, they can't see the construction equipment parts, but can order them!). I'm not averse to Cat, either, as I've had good experiences there, too, with my old 112 grader. I don't necessarily need the 4-in-one as I have a grapple for my tractor, but it can't handle the size logs a larger t-loader can. Too many options....!

 

[DMiller]

ERB is a decent dealer CavinJim, dealt with them for years when worked in garage, not so much now a days. Are still a lot of the G's out for sale I just could not afford one when bought my Allis at 1/4 the price where even as I must fight with it to keep it going bought a second for parts and spent a lot to get pieces from Minnpar I still have less in it than a 555G yet does as much work just no accessories beyond a 4/1.

 

[Welder Dave]

A 655(B) is basically a newer version of a 755 and about 5 tons heavier than 555G.

 

[DMiller]

And a good rear engine tractor if IF you care for hydros.