IH 175 C, Won't crank over

[Haymaker101]

Hi eveeryone, been following forum for awhile, but first time posting. I have a 1976ish Internatioal 175c with the DT 466 engine. The machine has always been great until recently.
The push button starter was acting up this spring and would sometimes have no response when pressed, or it would click, or start machine. I only use the machine as needed on farm and it did not make it a priority to fix.

Now I cannot get the machine to turn over at all. I replaced the start button and now the machine constantly clicks. Now it only clicks, never starts. Both batteries tested good, it's a 24 volt system.

The last time the machine started, the starter got stuck and was making the humming noise after I shut it off and had to use the master battery kill to make it stop. Haven't been able to start since Friday. So, does this sound like a failed starter to you guys? Selanoid? I have check my ground best possible and don't see any bad connectios.
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Any suggestions? The starter looks nearly impossible to unbolt, no room. Anyone have any experience? Is this system a positive ground by chance?
Thanks in advance, sorry for the long post

 

[Moonlite]

If the starter stayed engaged pretty good chance it burned it up. Did you load test the batteries? How many cranking amps are the batteries? Are all of your connections good and clean?

 

[Haymaker101]

Hi moonlike, I pulled the batteries Saturday morning and brought them to autozone where they load tested them and said they passed at 94 and 96 percent life. All connections appear good,except one which I removed and cleaned up, still no luck. What causes a starter to stay engaged?

 

[lantraxco]

Highly unlikely it's positive ground if it's from the 70's. There should be a relay somewhere between the switch and the starter, that's what's clicking. Take a test light or meter and see if the small wire connected to the starter solenoid is getting power when you push the start button. If it isn't, you have a bad relay or broken wire. If it is and the solenoid is not engaging, you have a bad solenoid. If you can hear and feel the solenoid pull in and the starter doesn't run, either the solenoid contacts are burned out, or the starter itself is defective. You can jump from the big hot lead on the solenoid to the terminal where the small wire connects (PLEASE be sure it's not in gear and you are clear of anything that will rotate!) to check if the solenoid will pull in. You can jump across the two big terminals on the solenoid to see if the starter spins. BE CAREFUL! 24 volts like to melt things! I use a short flat blade screwdriver from the dollar store, and remind myself where the battery shutoff switch is before crossing terminals on 24 volt starters in case the screwdriver gets welded on. Wear safety glasses, it's like arc welding if you short to ground.

If the starter was hung up, it's most likely toast. If you can get to the solenoid you might try changing that first as it was probably the original problem. I don't know about the 175 but I have on Deere products more than once had to disassemble the starter from the back down to the nose cone one piece at a time starting with the solenoid. just remove every bolt you see until there's nothing left. Reclocking the replacement made it much easier to install and for future service.

 

[Moonlite]

Normal wear can cause it. Most of the time though i find it was a bad connection or weak batteries. I like to use batteries with a 1000 cranking amps or more.

 

[lantraxco]

Hi moonlike, I pulled the batteries Saturday morning and brought them to autozone where they load tested them and said they passed at 94 and 96 percent life. All connections appear good,except one which I removed and cleaned up, still no luck. What causes a starter to stay engaged?

Stuck switch, stuck relay, solenoid contacts welded themselves together.....

 

[Haymaker101]

Thanks guys for the advice. Tomorrow I'm going to try and check for that rely. Any advice and removing the starter if it comes to it. Dropping the belly skid plates? I too think the starter is toast. Any advice and where to purchase starter and selanoid?

 

[Haymaker101]

What exactly will rely look like?

 

[lantraxco]

I think this is correct: http://www.smithcoelectric.com/servlet/the-425/10478941-10478995-10479009-10479053/Detail

 

[Haymaker101]

Great, thanks again for all the advice. I'll keep you posted with what ends up being the fix

 

[dozerman400]

We had some 175's with your problem, our mechanic said some teeth were missing in the starter, he had us carefully spin the fan and or tap the starter and believe it or not it would start. Eventually had to replace starter.

 

[Haymaker101]

Hey dozerman, thanks for the info. I'll try tomorrow to spin fan carefully while someone pushes then start button. To replace the starter, did you drop the belly pans for access? Any tips or tricks for removal are appreciated

 

[Delmer]

I'll try tomorrow to spin fan carefully while someone pushes then start button.

NO, Don't rip your hands off please. Turn the fan, THEN climb back into the seat and try the starter. Or, have someone try the starter and tap it at the same time with a broom handle.

 

[Haymaker101]

ahhh, that sounds like a much better plan. thank you. so anyone ever pull a atarter put of a 175 c or maybe even a td15 (I think its the same)

 

[boone]

Haymaker, remove the pan under the engine and the starter will be tucked up on the left side of the fly wheel housing. Three bolts and a wire or two... It's not bad. It helps if you have the loader arms up but you should manage without having them raised. I don't remember it being a bad job at all.

 

[Mike Legg]

It can be done from the bottom; but, oh so much easier with the arms up. Of course, if you can not raise the bucket you will have to go from the bottom. Removing the starter would be my last resort. I would make sure all the electrical circuits are good before proceeding. Good Luck!

 

[Haymaker101]

Thanks Boone, I was hoping you were going to chime in on my needed repair.. .
. Can you explain about this starter having oil and seals etc. I read in another thread about how someone post 2 gallons of oil upon pulling starter. What else should I expect besides unbolting and rebolting the new starter?

 

[Haymaker101]

Typing error, someone Lost 2 gallons fluid

 

[boone]

There was a gasket on the starter flange. I'm pretty sure we removed the starter before we removed the engine but I don't remember us loosing much oil when pulling the starter out. You probably will lose some. The starter has various internal o rings to keep the oil out of it. Good luck with it.

 

[Haymaker101]

Hey everyone, figured out how to jump solenoid and got her running good. Starter did not stick and everything went well. I'm going to drop skid plate and pull out starter and solenoid. I'll replace solenoid and probably have starter rebuilt or gone through while out of Machine. I'll also get to clean out some oils and grease from the belly plate. Thank you everyone for your advice on this one