Just like it says , The guy that works with me took a job doing a septic which was a lagoon type. Set a tank , build a pond , pipe from tank to pond , put in a short lateral line for an overflow. This all happened first of November last year. Got a call yesterday from the health department , they said the municipal water main is running through the dam of this lagoon. To clarify why it was put in this location , there was an existing pond there. My partner was the one dealing with the owner , they had called him to do the job , in this situation , I let the dealing be done do the work , split the money. Well the water company has called the health department and this lagoon has to be moved 50'. I had a bad gut feeling going into this , I called the health department , my partner , everybody said it was ok to put it in this pond. Well I know that with the water main being in the dam , its got to be moved. This expense , all of it will fall in my lap. I know its my own damn fault , but I want others to learn from my experience on this situation. A simple call to the water company would have avoided this , initially it would have taken longer to dig the lagoon but it would be a done deal. Cost will be 3 days with D39 Komatsu , 2 Days with backhoe , haul in and out 22 miles one way , plus 500 in materials. I could have thrown up. But , I know its my fault , a simple phone call would have avoided it. Don't trust your partner , health department , get your own info.
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I should have known better.
- Thread starter Dickjr.
- Start date
digger242j
Administrator
Just curious--Do you have a One Call utility locating agency there?
Yes , I didn't call. I left this up to the other guy. I own all the equipment , have the insurance , supply the fuel , materials etc. Its a long story but I may be fixing to break some ties. But again , its my own fault. The Lady at the health department hated to have to tell me , I told her it wasn't her fault.
grandpa
Senior Member
Well Dickjr. my heart goes out to you. It is a sucky feeling, been there myself. Only my episode was on a Friday night helping another contractor to finish his part of a project when my machine hit a 1200 pr Telephone cable. The project had been located on call from the contractor I was helping and this particular cable had been missed on the locate. I was the recipient of the bill because I didn't have a locate for my machine. Chalked it up as a lesson learned. I will still help people but not without a located call initiated by ME!
I understand if you want to make it right for the homeowner, and it's your reputation, but that doesn't sound like it's your fault or responsibility. If the homeowner dealt with your "partner" then it's between them to figure it out. No reason whatsoever for you to eat the whole cost. Just my 2 cents.
I considered this , but the thing its like you said , my reputation is worth doing this to me. I hate it. The other guy could care less , he tried every way in the world to tell me why it didn't have to be moved. I don't care who says what , its got to be moved. With out getting into detail or the situation was clarified , it would show why this fell back in my lap. I ask him to pay half the cost and he got defensive. Again I'm supplying the machinery , well everything needed to do the job. If I could kick myself in the azz I would .
CM1995
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First of all I am not posting to preach anything in your situation, rather give some insight on my business model.
This situation is why I mainly do commercial projects. Commercial projects have a civil engineer of record that is paid to draw plans for the project. This includes all utilities that impact the site as well as the design for the finished product. If the actual conditions of the site are different from the contract plans, then it's the owner that has to foot the bill for a change order.
I say this because in a way (the way I read it and I could be wrong), you assumed the role of the civil engineer for this project without getting paid for it. The civil engineers get paid good money to produce project plans. An excavator should not assume the role of a civil engineer on a project unless they are getting just compensation for their time and expertise.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not beating you up over this, rather educating folks on the topic of risk when it comes to civil design.
Best of luck man, I've been there before.
This situation is why I mainly do commercial projects. Commercial projects have a civil engineer of record that is paid to draw plans for the project. This includes all utilities that impact the site as well as the design for the finished product. If the actual conditions of the site are different from the contract plans, then it's the owner that has to foot the bill for a change order.
I say this because in a way (the way I read it and I could be wrong), you assumed the role of the civil engineer for this project without getting paid for it. The civil engineers get paid good money to produce project plans. An excavator should not assume the role of a civil engineer on a project unless they are getting just compensation for their time and expertise.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not beating you up over this, rather educating folks on the topic of risk when it comes to civil design.
Best of luck man, I've been there before.
That's what I'm saying CM. If the homeowner calls you and says, "build me a septic system", it's your responsibility. The homeowner says "put a septic system here", their responsibility.
Reminds me of a dead horse story recently... that had a better ending though.
Reminds me of a dead horse story recently... that had a better ending though.
Commercial jobs around here are pretty well sewn up by the chosen few. The health department dictates what type of system is to be installed , but CM your right , I (or the partner in this case) has to make and submit a drawing prior to installing the system. Then install it and do an as built drawing afterwards. The HD states the size of the tank , amount and depth of lateral lines or in this case the size of the lagoon and overflow. I feel like slamming my hand in a door. I quit drinking daily back in November and now this. Plus I had a colonoscopy today and had a 5mm to 10mm polyp removed. I got my mind made up to get a plan , get out there , redo it and get away from it. CM I bid a lot of commercial , engineered jobs , but I don't have the right last name to get in there. I have done municipal sewers , water mains , public streets , high voltage underground etc. I like that work better and the pay is better. Every once in a blue moon I'll land one. I did bid a job with said partner , 300k sewer job with lift station and road bore. You don't know how glad I am I did not get it with said partner. On this job I would have held the bag as well. I did have an alternate plan believe me. I get my 6 beer allowance Saturday , I'm gonna tear them up.
JBGASH
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Dickjr, I feel for you, I have had a blunder or two also, about anyone in the business has had them also. The partnership thing is a complicated issue that presents constant problems for most, there are a few exceptions but, very few at that. One thing that I do on every septic system we install, is a complete written site evaluation & sketch to scale, prior to any construction. All utilities are 100% located and identified along with soil types, slopes, wells, structure setbacks, property line setbacks ets. This practice will prevent mishaps like you had from occurring- I too had to learn this the hard way. Go fix the issue like you are killing snakes ASAP, people & future customers will take note and it will be remembered how you handled the situation and good will come out of it in time...
Normally I can dig a lagoon in 8 to 12 hrs , but this rascal , take 4" dirt then start flipping rocks. On these I'll dig till I get frustrated or loose a filling then leave and come back fresh.
my advice if its your equipment & your name on it..... GET RID OF THE PARTNER!!! you don't need people like that helpin you.. you are doing the right thing by fixing the mistake & that will keep you in good graces with the health dept & customers
CM1995
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The only real way to locate all of the utilities would be to perform a title search for easements outside of the ROW and even then it's not 100%.
A little story -
Developing a piece of property back in the early 2000's. We run across an 8" DI water line that's hot, running down one property line between the development and the apartments next door. Found the line after the streets and utilities were installed.
There was no easement recorded on the property by the water company..
The water company tried holding us over a barrel, demanding that we were going to pay to re-route the line and until we did, we weren't getting the first water meter - kinda hard selling a townhouse without water.. This rocked on for a few months while final plat of the development was going through approvals.
When this fiasco was first discovered, I reviewed my paperwork and the title policy. Talked with title company and they were 100% positive the water company did not have an easement on that property. Just for research, the title co. searched one county over and sure enough, the water company did have an easement, on that property but they recorded it in the wrong county.:cool2
It didn't take long after I relayed that information, that the #2 guy from the water board wants to meet on site. It took 15 mins to handle the situation. They moved the line and I got water.
A little story -
Developing a piece of property back in the early 2000's. We run across an 8" DI water line that's hot, running down one property line between the development and the apartments next door. Found the line after the streets and utilities were installed.
There was no easement recorded on the property by the water company..
The water company tried holding us over a barrel, demanding that we were going to pay to re-route the line and until we did, we weren't getting the first water meter - kinda hard selling a townhouse without water.. This rocked on for a few months while final plat of the development was going through approvals.
When this fiasco was first discovered, I reviewed my paperwork and the title policy. Talked with title company and they were 100% positive the water company did not have an easement on that property. Just for research, the title co. searched one county over and sure enough, the water company did have an easement, on that property but they recorded it in the wrong county.:cool2
It didn't take long after I relayed that information, that the #2 guy from the water board wants to meet on site. It took 15 mins to handle the situation. They moved the line and I got water.
Been thinking the same thing. He brings in some business , earns me some money , but I believe if I had a good ground man I'd be as well off on my own. I've been more accommodating to him anyway. I believe from now on my approach is going to be simple. What I get I'm going to take care of and not ask him to help , what he gets I'll supply the machine and take half the money. Maybe best to break ties all the way around. One example of the situation , I had a guy building a game reserve hunting lodge and all. Good size job. The guy never should up to help me during only one part of the process , and that's the part where he earned a share of the job. I asked for help doing hourly work , never showed up. And I pay him 25$ an hour , no benefits. More I think about it the more aggravated I get.
I understand the frustration. That's why I like the excavator so I don't have to get beat to death traveling on the rock. Plus I can place the rock in the dam to help get the post in easier for the fence.
As far as the septic I feel for you on the mistake, but reputation is hard to build easy to destroy. The good rep fom doing this will pay off.
I moved my backhoe and dozer out to move this lagoon Saturday. I went out this morning and started digging the new pond. When I arrived I noticed the backhoe had been moved. Well the homeowner decided he would use my backhoe to dig a footer for a front porch. I asked the guys wife if the backhoe worked out ok for them and she looked like I caught he with a male organ in her mouth. She said I'd have to ask her husband about it. Its bad enough I have to eat this one , then they take the liberty to use the machine at will. I didn't make a big deal out of it fearing they might vandalize something. I was pissed , but kept my cool. 2 more days and its over , I hope. And the pond was a rock SOB , I mean terrible. I looked to the heavens and asked God , What did I do to deserve this? Things got better after that. I made it a point to tell the owner I would take care of it 100%.