Hydraulic oil vs universal hydraulic fluid

[Quintonhall]

I know the universal is made for trans and hydraulics like on my Kubota. I also have a jcb 214s. It uses hydraulic oil for just the hydraulics. My question is it fine to use the universal fluid on the jcb also? For some reason the universal is cheaper and easier to find. Also I wouldn't have to keep both at shop

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[Hendrik]

Oil has specifications, as long as the universal meets those it should be OK.
If in doubt talk to JCB, they know the machine better than anyone, however generally any good quality oil designed for hyd application will do, more important to keep it fresh and change the filters regularly.
Contamination is the great killer of hyd systems.
BTW I am not a great fan of those combined system, trans and hyd together, any wear from the trans will go through the hyd system. Sure it makes servicing easier but there is a grater danger of damage.

 

[Quintonhall]

I'm sure jcb will recommend only jcb brand fluid. there isn't any dealers near me to ask either. The buckets of universal list all the different manufacture specs that it will replace all those specs listed are trans/hydraulic specs. But it does list it as for both hydraulic and trans use. I'm guessing theres maybe some sort of modifiers added to it for the clutches in transmission. Any ideas if those additives are ok to use in a hydraulic only system?

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[mitch504]

A decent universal fluid will be fine in a tlb hyd system, I've used it in my 2 fords, my Case, and my b-in-l uses it in his Long, his JD and his JCB.

Like Hendrik said, keeping the oil clean and dry and the filters changed is much more important than the brand of oil.

 

[willie59]

Aside from quality of oil among brands, and various additives and modifiers, the biggest difference between typical hyd oils (R&O, AW, Universal Tractor Trans), is the tractor trans oils generally have additives to prevent brake chatter with wet brakes on tractors where R&O and AW oils don't. Basically means you could use tractor trans for pretty much any hyd application, but you wouldn't want to use R&O or AW in tractor transmission setups with wet brakes.

 

[Quintonhall]

A decent universal fluid will be fine in a tlb hyd system, I've used it in my 2 fords, my Case, and my b-in-l uses it in his Long, his JD and his JCB.

Like Hendrik said, keeping the oil clean and dry and the filters changed is much more important than the brand of oil.

I have no problem keeping the oil clean. Its a 1998 model. Hoses and cylinder seals are at the end of there life. Every time something blows it gets more fresh oil!
I have been using oil from tractor supply, I think there oil is made by Warren. This is a descent quality oil?

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[mitch504]

I've used Warren since the '80s w/ no problems, and have used Tractor Supply oil some, but T.S. is too pricey for me.

Just to make you sick, about 10 yrs ago, I could still get Warren oil for $11/ 5 gallon bucket if I bought a pallet.

 

[icestationzebra]

"Aside from ...... various additives and modifiers...."

Sorry Willie, but that made me laugh. Like you allude to additives and modifiers make up a large portion of differences between oils, and I've heard range in the neighborhood of 20% of the product by volume. Also agree on the friction modifier.

In general
R&O: rust & oxidation protection, anti-foam
AW: R&O plus anti-wear additive
Universal tractor oil: AW plus friction modifiers for wet brakes and clutches, high pressure gear additives for final drives, high water tolerance,
Note: all three of these won't damage "yellow metals" like some gear oils

ISZ

 

[willie59]

In general
R&O: rust & oxidation protection, anti-foam
AW: R&O plus anti-wear additive
Universal tractor oil: AW plus friction modifiers for wet brakes and clutches, high pressure gear additives for final drives, high water tolerance,
Note: all three of these won't damage "yellow metals" like some gear oils

Very good synopsis ISZ, it ain't rocket science, even though it purported to be. Now if we could just simplify antifreeze/coolant I'd be a happy guy.

 

[Quintonhall]

Ok if I understand correctly the universal fluid has everything the aw has and adds the additives for clutches/brakes. But what is the weight of the universal? Hydraulic fluid comes in three different weights that I know of. Aw 46 is what I normally use. Is the universal fluid same weight?

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[icestationzebra]

I'm assuming you mean ISO 46? The three big ones are 32, 46 and 64, but there is also 10, 15, 22, 100, 150, 220 and 460. There are a couple different weights available in synthetic and conventional. Standard blend is usually ISO 46 to 64, while cold weather/arctic blend is around an ISO 32. To check for yourself just look at the viscosity in cSt @ 40°C, this is where the ISO number comes from.

ISZ

 

[TheOldMan]

What is TF500? I've been experiencing hydraulic probs with FEL on Yanmar EX450 since new. 2nd dealer has had the tractor for 2 weeks trying to find the problem (under warranty). Rec'd a call yesterday that they had changed the fluid and filters and cleaned the screen, and this solved the problem, said oil was foaming. Said it had the wrong oil in it from the factory, should have been TF500. Oil that was in it was for shuttle shift, this is manual trans. Does this make sense? I know the tractor has wet brakes, will this wrong oil affect them? How about seals? The oil when checking the dipstick was clear, they said TF500 is red. Is this true?

 

[icestationzebra]

Yanmar says it is ISO46 "hydraulic oil with friction modifiers" for wet brakes. ISZ

 

[TheOldMan]

I just made a 140 mile round trip to confirm that the problem with the EX450 is fixed - it isn't. The problem is float on the bucket. i.e. if you dump a bucket of dirt, and try to backblade it level, the bucket will float over the top. Pick the arms straight up, and you can move the bucket back and forth like the cylinders were disconnected. Changing the oil and filter and cleaning the screen certainly helped, bu did not solve the problem. Mechanic said the filter and screen were full of foam. Said it was caused by hyd oil that was to be used in a hydrostatic xmission. Said the geared xmission whips air into the oil and this causes the problem. They still have the tractor, I refused to accept it. They are going to change the control valve and see what happens.