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Hydraulic Forks...

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
Greetings HEF Members,

I've gotta question and a suggestion regarding hydraulically adjustable forks. First the question, anyone here use them? Second, the suggestion, since the whole concept of hydraulic forks is to keep the Operator -US- from having to dismount and manually -sometimes not so easy either- adjust them for the load to be "forked" wouldn't it be a grand idea if we didn't have to first connect the hoses?

Yeah I know, seems like a far-fetched idea doesn't it? Well, Liebherr has a system for excavators called LIKUFIX which not only affords easy attachment swaps but also connects the hydraulics without Operator intervention. So, could someone please tell me why this has yet to be developed for Wheel Loaders? Seriously, don't give me some technical excuse about dirt and grime clogging the system mating plate, as if to imply that a Wheel Loader's "business end" works in a more inhospitable environment than an Excavators arm/stick and bucket, c'mon! Even if an Operator has to dismount a few times to check the mating plate for gunk and grime that's a whole lot simpler and less manually intensive than constantly adjusting the forks. Besides, most "pro" Operators usually keep simple cleaning products in the cab for windows, mirrors etc, I can't see it being much of an inconvenience to have on hand some degreaser and a few shops rags as well.

If you work in Underground Utilities as I do then you are aware how many times a day we have to dismount and adjust our forks. I have used the most prevalent forks in the industry, those which will lock in place -preferred and suck less- and those that don't -which suck more- if you use those that lock it can be a real PITA to adjust once grease and gunk clog up the locking rail. If you use those that don't and keep 'em greased so you don't have to drop a knut to adjust them they will change position with the wind which will have you climbing down to re-adjust them constantly, which sucks EVEN more.

I hope those of you here if any from CAT, Deere, Komatsu, Volvo, JRB, WB, Pemberton etc. read AND hear what I am suggesting. I can't see it being much of an engineering leap to design some sort of plate as Liebherr has done and afix it to the quick coupler which in turn kills two birds with one stone. There are other attachments for a Wheel Loader that would benefit from such a system such as hydraulic jib booms and brooms to name a few. Loader Operators on Pipe Crews are arguably the hardest working and busiest of the bunch and climbing up and down the ladders to dismount is not something that's easy on the ole' bod in the long run. There you have it, my two cents on a matter that is long overdue for engineering attention and intervention.
 
Last edited:

bigshow

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
467
Location
Somewhere.
Couldn't agree more with everything you brought up. I've always said that if a company wanted to improve a product they need to talk to the people utilizing it. Instead they hire some engineer who doesn't know the difference between a fork and a spoon to design the tools we use. Brilliant!!!
 

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
Hey bigshow,

Yeah I hear 'ya, but dontcha know dem ingineers consider "us" nothing but neckdowns, how they think we see and hear still amazes me since we apparently don't have heads or brains. Yet, all the major manufacturers claim to consult with Operators when developing new products, I wonder who Liebherr consulted with when developing the LIKUFIX?

Couldn't agree more with everything you brought up. I've always said that if a company wanted to improve a product they need to talk to the people utilizing it. Instead they hire some engineer who doesn't know the difference between a fork and a spoon to design the tools we use. Brilliant!!!
 

oceanobob

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
751
Location
oceano california
Occupation
general contractor
Our 8042 square shooter has a 1-1/2" carriage shaft with thick walled bored sleeves on the forks. When driving around empty the forks bounce to a location of their own choosing. Bought some split collars, my plan is to tighten around shaft in location of my choosing.
Set 'em wide or set 'em narrow - that's where they be tomorrow.
 

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
Hey Bob,

That's all well and good if the position is one of a permanent nature where constant and needed re-positioning isn't occuring throughout the day. Also, having split collars requires having a wrench and that just adds to the workload I would prefer manufacturers either equipment or attachment help alleviate.


Our 8042 square shooter has a 1-1/2" carriage shaft with thick walled bored sleeves on the forks. When driving around empty the forks bounce to a location of their own choosing. Bought some split collars, my plan is to tighten around shaft in location of my choosing.
Set 'em wide or set 'em narrow - that's where they be tomorrow.
 

3rdgendslmech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
55
Location
Severn Md.
I think its not a matter of "why haven't they?" I think they're thinking "how could we.....?" Here's some food for thought:

I've been around quite a bit of quick change attachments in my career as a mechanic and the #1 gripe of all operators is "how can we tighten this thing up some more". Meaning other than day 1 of being brand new, the coupler system on any quick change is the main weakness. You'll get up/down and side to side play after some use. Take an eigth of an inch of metal off the top and bottom of a bore and you got a 1/4 inch of play up and down. Now you've 2 hoses say 3/4inch inside diameter (which is pretty big just for fork positioning) that have to slide into eachother, and make a good seal all the time no matter how much wear on the coupler. Now I don't know about the company you work for but I've yet to see a utility company swap buckets, forks, rollers, and vibrators as gently as burping a baby. Knock something over the right way and now you've bent your hose hook up, or....you've bent something on the whole attachment and nothing lines up right anymore.

I'm guessing it can be done, but like I said that kind of device to work time and time again, and be very reliable would probably take a lot of money. Most owners would say "how hard is it to hop out of the seat and hook up 2 quick change couplers?"

That's just coming from a mechanic's point of view. I guess if I had to do that every day I'd try to think of something better also.
 

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
Hi 3rdgen,

You make an extremely valid and good point and I couldn't agree with you more, most couplers are loose even when new and I personally find JRB's to be the worst. However, CAT's Fusion coupler with the downward facing and constant hydraulic pressure wedges would seem to me the logical choice for such a system, in my experience it doesn't allow movement much at all even when suffering wear and tear. We recently demo'd a new 938K with ALL the bells and whistles and that my friend is one VERY Operator friendly machine and a perfect match for Utility work IMHO. I have emailed and phoned CAT's offices in Clayton, NC to see if some convincing is in order.

Hey now, whatdya mean we aren't gentle when swapping attachments? I think I resemble that remark, git'er done and quick is our motto! I have discovered that applying some grease on the coupler interface actually increases wear because of the dirt attraction and retention. What's an Operator to do?

I think its not a matter of "why haven't they?" I think they're thinking "how could we.....?"

Here's some food for thought:

I've been around quite a bit of quick change attachments in my career as a mechanic and the #1 gripe of all operators is "how can we tighten this thing up some more". Meaning other than day 1 of being brand new, the coupler system on any quick change is the main weakness. You'll get up/down and side to side play after some use. Take an eigth of an inch of metal off the top and bottom of a bore and you got a 1/4 inch of play up and down. Now you've 2 hoses say 3/4inch inside diameter (which is pretty big just for fork positioning) that have to slide into eachother, and make a good seal all the time no matter how much wear on the coupler. Now I don't know about the company you work for but I've yet to see a utility company swap buckets, forks, rollers, and vibrators as gently as burping a baby. Knock something over the right way and now you've bent your hose hook up, or....you've bent something on the whole attachment and nothing lines up right anymore.

I'm guessing it can be done, but like I said that kind of device to work time and time again, and be very reliable would probably take a lot of money. Most owners would say "how hard is it to hop out of the seat and hook up 2 quick change couplers?"

That's just coming from a mechanic's point of view. I guess if I had to do that every day I'd try to think of something better also.
 

3rdgendslmech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
55
Location
Severn Md.
Haha I wasn't directing that comment directly at you SeaMac, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I wondered about a wedge type lock a while back for a quick change set up on larger equipment. You look at most skid steer set ups and you see a wedge set up just like CAT has done with the Fusion. Caterpillar quick changes on excavators work pretty good with that design in that there's constant pressure on the dump pin on the bucket pin to stay tight. I saw a few you tube videos of Liebherrs version and it looks like it would work...untill you start getting dirt or a chunk of something inbetween the 2 mating surfaces so.
Till then I guess you're gonna have to do it the old fasioned way.

What you could do is weld in some metal with holes drilled in a way that lets you slide the forks however you want and just slip bolts on each side of both forks to keep them how you want. Like if you look at the top of the boss where the fork slides drop a bolt on down on each side of the boss.
 

cps

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
811
Location
Ireland
Occupation
plant mechanic
Greetings HEF Members,

I've gotta question and a suggestion regarding hydraulically adjustable forks. First the question, anyone here use them? Second, the suggestion, since the whole concept of hydraulic forks is to keep the Operator -US- from having to dismount and manually -sometimes not so easy either- adjust them for the load to be "forked" wouldn't it be a grand idea if we didn't have to first connect the hoses?

Yeah I know, seems like a far-fetched idea doesn't it? Well, Liebherr has a system for excavators called LIKUFIX which not only affords easy attachment swaps but also connects the hydraulics without Operator intervention. So, could someone please tell me why this has yet to be developed for Wheel Loaders? Seriously, don't give me some technical excuse about dirt and grime clogging the system mating plate, as if to imply that a Wheel Loader's "business end" works in a more inhospitable environment than an Excavators arm/stick and bucket, c'mon! Even if an Operator has to dismount a few times to check the mating plate for gunk and grime that's a whole lot simpler and less manually intensive than constantly adjusting the forks. Besides, most "pro" Operators usually keep simple cleaning products in the cab for windows, mirrors etc, I can't see it being much of an inconvenience to have on hand some degreaser and a few shops rags as well.

If you work in Underground Utilities as I do then you are aware how many times a day we have to dismount and adjust our forks. I have used the most prevalent forks in the industry, those which will lock in place -preferred and suck less- and those that don't -which suck more- if you use those that lock it can be a real PITA to adjust once grease and gunk clog up the locking rail. If you use those that don't and keep 'em greased so you don't have to drop a knut to adjust them they will change position with the wind which will have you climbing down to re-adjust them constantly, which sucks EVEN more.

I hope those of you here if any from CAT, Deere, Komatsu, Volvo, JRB, WB, Pemberton etc. read AND hear what I am suggesting. I can't see it being much of an engineering leap to design some sort of plate as Liebherr has done and afix it to the quick coupler which in turn kills two birds with one stone. There are other attachments for a Wheel Loader that would benefit from such a system such as hydraulic jib booms and brooms to name a few. Loader Operators on Pipe Crews are arguably the hardest working and busiest of the bunch and climbing up and down the ladders to dismount is not something that's easy on the ole' bod in the long run. There you have it, my two cents on a matter that is long overdue for engineering attention and intervention.

Yep it has been done!http://www.oilquick.com/Wheelloadercouplers.htm Looks to be a great system!
 

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
cps,

Thanks, and wouldn't 'ya know it, it's on a Liebherr, funny that! I'll have to look into this system much further, glad someone actually does think about us Operators and not just talk BS how they strive to make things easier for us.
 

OCR

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Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
OCR,

Now that is just what the Doctor ordered, them Swede's huh? Since the Li'l Woman is of Swedish decent I think she'll be happy with the discovery as well. So how come US manufacturers can't come up with something similar? In any event phone calls shall be forthcoming and prices obtained. SeaMac likes very much indeed. Thanks OCR and CPS for staying on topic and enlightening me, much obliged... :notworthy

Well, here's the OilQuick YouTube channel SeaMac.

Lol... and I give you my solemn promise; they don't show any videos of mechanized dogs ... :D


As Hendrik said...




I'll try to not stray, in the future, also... ;)




OCR... :)
 

SeaMac

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
549
Location
27.2730° N, 80.3582° W
Occupation
Operator
Leave it to Liebherr,

At the 2013 BAUMA Liebherr introduced their Likufix system for Wheel Loaders. What does this mean and what is Likufix? It means a quick-coupler that accommodates "quick coupling" of the hydraulic connections without human intervention, Likufix is automatic and a proven system on Excavators (at least Liebherr says so). For those of us in the Underground Utility industry this is a welcome feature, why? It means we can use hydraulically adjustable forks and not have to dismount to connect the hydraulics.
 
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