How to dig a ditch...?

[watglen]

I am doing a large ditch, 2800' long. Most of it is going to be 6' deep, maybe even a little more.

I am using the 240 with a 60" ditching bucket.

I was able to work for 4 hrs today, got about 330' done so far. I am placing the spoils behind me so the path stays open for traffic.

Couple questions come to mind. I think my cutting edge is worn out. It is a well used bucket, and the bottom of the cutting edge is well rounded. Also, i notice the machine has to apply a lot of down pressure to get the cutting edge to bite into the clay.

I wonder whether a new cutting edge would help with the speed or ease of running the bucket.

Also, its hard to dig a proper ditch when the ditchbank blocks your view.

I can get the depth right but i would like to get a wider flat bottom. I wonder if my machine will even do a ditch this deep? I likely just don't know how to do it properly.

I could use some good tips on how i can do a better job here.

Thanks a lot guys.

:beatsme

 

[tylermckee]

a nice cutting edge will make things easier, less scratching to get to grade and its easier to get things looking good with a nice straight cutting edge. I like to paint a line on the far side of the ditch, where the slope starts then just shape up a section the width of the bucket, check and make sure its good, then just follow that on down the line. my last pass or two i use the bottom of the cutting edge or heal of the bucket to smooth things up. I usually try to position the machine so i can sight down the slope.

 

[S.R.E.]

You could set up in line and dig the ditch with a bucket the width of the bottom and then you have your far toe and your near toe. Then paint a line at your far top of ditch and near top of ditch. Start your slopes perfect then you can match the existing as you pull the slopes. One tip is to line the back of your bucket with the slope then you will have a nice even slope not a concave slope. I would use a pipe laser for line and grade.

 

[watglen]

I slept on it and i think what i'm going to try is dig the far bank with the machine away from the ditch, then move the machine closer and dig the bottom and near bank from where i can see what i'm doing.

 

[stumpjumper83]

Looking at the ditch you are doing there, I think I'd attack it a different way. If in the last pic its 6' deep, then its 18' wide. That means with no flat bottom its a 1.5:1 slope.

I'd look at setting the machine in line with the ditch, just like you were straight line trenching, and put your regular 4 or 5' bucket on and move dirt. Then finish it with a tracked skidsteer or finish dozer in the ditch. The other You could also grab an i beam in your thumb and and walk back up the ditch bank after you roughed it out and clean it with that.

I think you would be much faster with that amount of dirt to move if you kept the hoe in line with the ditch where you would be maximizine the machine. Digging over the side you have to be gentle or the machine will slide on the snow, unless you have your tracks the other way, if so your spending all your time re-positioning and not digging.

Another good thing to do is look at red dots' masterpieces he digs with a trapizoidal bucket... the slopes are close just alot deeper.

just my .03 american dollars

 

[watglen]

Red dots' work makes mine look like it was dug with dynamite! ointhead

Maybe you're right there. Maybe i should put my 30" trenching bucket on, get down to grade and form a flat bottom, carve away at the sides, then come back with the ditching bucket to clean up the sides and make it pretty.

It's worth a try, i have lots of ditch to experiment on here.

 

[reddot556]

watglen...first of all..thanks for the nice words..now on to your project..from the looks of your pics it looks like your digging a simple drainage ditch..maybe one that will have no pipe in it?, like it will stay open awhile?..ok..lets go from there.
first of..a 60" bucket, digging in that clay will give you very poor down pressure with a cutting edge, something that wide with no teeth in clay just works that way..maybe get the bulk out with a traditional bucket, then use ol smoothy for dress up?.. also, what Tylermckee said..a paint line on the farside to keep you consistent and maybe paint or a row of grade stakes on your side also...consistency is very important for a long ditch..also make sure where your sitting is flat and level as that will transfer to your bucket angle..ie, if your rightaway is rough so will be the bottom of your trench, also what Tylermckee says..do one set perfect..spend a little time on it..when its what you want then use it as a kinda template for your other sets..as in move forward another bucket length, making sure your not swinging to the right or left as this throws off the angle. then when you get most of it out come back and trace your previous set..i know, i know its time consuming going back and forth but the resuls are usually nice..i prefer to never dig sideways as it takes twice as long..also what SRE says..maybe dig it like a traditional ditch..leaving enough behind to trim with..dig 1k feet..go back to a sideways thing to finish, then repeat..if its a ditch that will take pipe, then your going to backfill it..well who cares about all the pretty stuff?..pretty don't pay more

 

[watglen]

Well i finally got a chance to get back at 'er and low and behold, it is exactly twice as fast to rough dig the canal with the digging bucket from the end of the ditch. I made 160'/hr this aft. Bucket cycles are 18 seconds.

Next question is how fast can i dress it up and bring it to grade.

 

[stumpjumper83]

I bet you would get even more done if you took that narrow 30" off and replaced it with a 48" The 30 is a narrower than it is deep and clay doesn't like to release from narrow width buckets very well. You would also be picking up a third more volume with a 48

 

[Deeretime]

I dunno if you have it in your budget but a wrist makes that stuff alot easier and alot cleaner too... but there around 15,000 then you can sit square to the ditch and only swing a quarter of a swing to place spoil

 

[amyliveshere]

i allways replace the cutting edge when they have rounded of.makes life easier for the machine and easier to do a better job.keep 2 graders for one of my machines,one for digging and a worn one for grading
nick.,....

 

[watglen]

Stumpjumper, I am running a nice big 54" 2.25. Working really well in the clay.

Deertime, a wrist, a wrist, my kingdom for a wrist bucket! All i want for Christmas is a wrist bucket!

We'll find out today just how much better we do with the new cutting edge. I did alright on that thing. My local bucket mfr charged me $500(cdn), hardware included for a 66" x10" x1" reversible edge, and my local fab shop put it on for $200. The bucket needed holes. Only took 1 day. Beautiful!

 

[stumpjumper83]

Maybe i should put my 30" trenching bucket on, get down to grade and form a flat bottom, carve away at the sides, then come back with the ditching bucket to clean up the sides and make it pretty.

Thats what made me think you were runnin a 30"

 

[watglen]

Back at her today. New cutting edge on 66" ditching bucket. I cleaned up and finished the 320' i roughed out yesterday. I also cleaned up the pathway behind me, for vehicle traffic.

Yesterday the 320' took 2hrs. Today, i put another 2.5 hrs into it. The major factor with the ditching bucket is figuring out how to make a pass without spoils falling back into the hole. Gotta keep it tidy somehow. I figured out how to make a pass and use the underside of the bucket to push the dirt away from the edge of the hole before pulling up and out. Its a little trick but it works.

I also have come to the conclusion that to make the best time i have to rough the hole out as close as possible to the finished grade and profile. This way i only have one skim pass to make with the ditching bucket. As there will be less dirt falling in the hole too.

The ditch is about 20% done at this point

 

[Deeretime]

Digging with a pale is Ok but wihtout a wrist there is no way you can compete against a wrist, its ok if you do it once and a while but if you do alot of trimming you cant beat a tilt!

 

[watglen]

I have 1400' done so far, and i have reached the summit! FINALLY!

The winter weather prevents me from getting many hours out of a day. The sun goes down in the bush around 4:30 pm. Plus, i had to take a few days off around Christmas and whatnot.

Anyway, here are some pics of what is done so far.





The pics don't really do it justice, it looks better in person. Its about 6' deep all along there. I cut a swale into the pathway for some surface water coming out of the bush.

I am confined by the trees on both sides of the path, so i can't dig directly in line. However, digging inline has turned out faster than digging from the side, especially when sitting on ice. So i sit inline with my right track marking the left edge of the bank, and dig on an angle, which gives a sawtooth in the far bank. I kinda mush that smooth with the ditching bucket on the second pass. The first pass goes to final grade, and i try to leave a bit on both banks so i have something to dig into to do the final shaping.

On day one I was using the ditching bucket from the side. This gave rounded bottom at grade. However, any other ditches i have seen have a flat bottom. This gives more capacity at grade, and allows for some side creep. Once i started digging inline, i got the flat bottom i wanted.

Another detail that has worked well is i pull a notch along the top of the near bank. I found this helps a lot to prevent spoils falling back into the finished ditch downgrade when i pull out with the ditching bucket. Anything that wants to fall off the edge of the ditching bucket ends up lodging and filling the notch, instead of tumbling back into the ditch bottom. This speeds things up a lot. since i never have to go back and grab any large balls of clay from an otherwise perfect looking clean ditch.

I'm also trying to clear a wide path behind me. This is one of those deals where the landowner wants wants wants but won't pay pay pay. So instead of doing picture perfect, i'm going for functional and fast. I just want it good enough so a rubber tired tractor can pass.

The path i'm working in is infested with saplings, and i spend a bit of time dealing with those, just to help save my paint, and glass. Also, there is the odd large oak across the ditch from me, where i have to be careful not to get my boom(and hoses) into. I tear the limbs off if i have to.



So the final numbers are coming in at 72'/hr 5-6 feet deep. Slope is .1% ( the minimum my laser will go)

Water is running fast. Everything is coming together now, and it looks like the grade i am on is going to work out perfect.

:drinkup

 

[Deeretime]

Keep up the good work !

 

[stumpjumper83]

looks good, glad to see the water running.

 

[reddot556]

looks good

 

[watglen]

I talked to the owner, he wants the job done now (as opposed to waiting till he can free up some cash)

So i went and picked up $900 worth of culverts and delivered them to site. I used my 3500 and float to carry the 20' lengths.

Question

What would y'all do about charging up the culverts and the delivery fee?

I guess i have the affliction of wanting to apologize for charging for service. That's just stupidity on my part.