Hostile Takeovers in the Construction Industry

[Burnout]

Thats quite the title isn't it? Well now that I got you in here... How y'all doin ha ha.

Ok I actually do have a question. Earlier this year the company I work for took over their biggest competitor in the Water and Sewer game. The other company IGL (Isn't Gonna Last, It's Gonna Leak) was previously owned by LaFarge and a few other owners before that. This company was quite large 200+ pcs of equipment and 9 water and sewer crews. IGL was heavy into the management aspect and has been said to have a great management team running the company. They say we the Sureway crew lack management, organization and do thinks in an odd way. I know a few people here share that opinion of how we dig but oh well.

Most of upper management from IGL did not come over because they don't want to work for our company. Our company does have a good management team, but has fewer levels of management and it all ends with 1 man.

As of late I was "sold" to IGL with my 973 to show them how we do things and what is expected. Last week I was sent out to one of their sites and was amazed to find an ME 385 digging with only a small bucket, a 345B for sidehoe, 963C for backfill, WA450 Wheel loader and a Cat CP563 packer. When I showed up backfill was a disaster. I immediately got the jist of things from the foreman and then went and chatted it up with the guy in the 963 only to find out he is useless. So I quickly started doing things my way and we kind of hashed it out for the day to see who would be the alpha male... I won needless to say.


Well now we are in a subdivision job I am excited beyong belief... I got my 973C back and we have lots of lots so I have tons of work. We have been digging mainline for a couple days now, I was pushing away from the hoe in the 973 because we didn't have much to backfill, but now we have some ditch opened up and the 963 was traded for my old 973 for the other guy. He complains that the 73 is too rough so he doesn't want to push away, but I mean wow... this guy cannot backfill. If he could watch himself from the outside he would crap a brick. I am a dink to work with I can admit it. I have a set way of how we do things and I stick to it. Our other track loader operator likes to do things the quick, easy and lazy way and I am having trouble sitting by watching. The last 2 days I have been pushing away from the hoe and backfilling myself while he plays in the tractor backhoe hoe packing for 2hrs a day. I have also been putting up with a wheel loader operator who used to run a track loader who has the same attitude and thinks he is still in one and goes and tosses dirt in places that honestly make me want to pull the little bit of hair out I still have left. As for the packer operator.... he is also IGL and he used to be a foreman but now runs packer for me. I had a chat with him this morning about packing and he basically told me where to sit and rotate, which then turned into me packing until his boss showed up and told HIM where to rotate.


My question is what do I do here? I am one of those people who just can't say I don't care. I love my job I always have and I want to do it correctly. I am stuck with a crew that still hangs onto the thought that this is IGL, but in 5 months it won't be anyways. Do I sit here and wait for the crap to hit the fan and they try and wash my hands of it? Or do I say forget it, go to their boss and try and change out the few people I actually have to work with?

 

[Buckethead]

When I showed up backfill was a disaster. I immediately got the jist of things from the foreman and then went and chatted it up with the guy in the 963 only to find out he is useless. So I quickly started doing things my way and we kind of hashed it out for the day to see who would be the alpha male... I won needless to say.




My question is what do I do here? I am one of those people who just can't say I don't care. I love my job I always have and I want to do it correctly. I am stuck with a crew that still hangs onto the thought that this is IGL, but in 5 months it won't be anyways. Do I sit here and wait for the crap to hit the fan and they try and wash my hands of it? Or do I say forget it, go to their boss and try and change out the few people I actually have to work with?

Here's a little secret learned from 20+ years of work experience. Try to get along with everyone. Picking fights with people does not get any work done. You're being paid to get the job done, not to critique the other operators. Also your post above contains the word "I" a lot more than "we". Maybe try to think more in terms of "we", to work as a team. Just a suggestion.

 

[dozerdave]

Hi Burnout,

Good advise Buckethead.

I am not sure if I fully understand your position. Are you the boss or did somebody tell you as an operator to go there and get some work done. If you are not the boss then the other workmen will surely not forget you. If that is the case, whom ever told you to run the project but gave you no authority has not done you any favors. I can understand an owner operating a piece of equipment and running the project or perhaps a working 4man running the job. If you are supposed to be the boss that should have been made very clear when you showed up with your equipment.

 

[tripper_174]

Buckethead, I'd work with you any day. Life's way to short to be having battles on the job. Lot's better ways to solve production issues.

 

[Red Bank]

Burnout, I can relate to your situation in that it is a lot like when we hire new guys and we have to train them to our way of doing things. They think they know, and they do, but here we do it this way? I have seen guys that thought they could operate, and put on a good show, but at the end of the day they were either rough on the equipment or lacking in production. I would take a long look at the situation that you are in. How long will it take your boss to come down and look what is going on? And, although they may not be doing it the way your company does things, put yourself in their shoes and see if that helps you to relate better to them? Unless your boss is coming soon, you might have to try and help the guys out and try to bring them around to how your company does things?

 

[xcavator120]

At the risk of embarrassment , here's a perspective from a newbie.

I've only been in the construction world for about 2 yrs, which includes the time spent in one of those scam HEO schools. I had never set my seat on a machine prior to the school. When I interviewed for the job, I made sure they understood this. I get the job (think they were hard up for help), and the super I get assigned to has a problem with constantly comparing me, and expecting me to perform as well, to his best operator(s).

For a newbie, that is very conscious about wanting to do a good job, and not wanting to tear up the project, not wanting to damage the equipment, this is very nerve-racking. This does have an affect on how well you can do, believe me. I've been told to do it this way, by one, and some other by another, so now which way is it done?

Don't know if they are new, or experienced and just don't care, hopefully not the latter. If new operators, please give them some benefit of the doubt, as they may be trying to do it right, but not using your technique.

 

[Burnout]

CRAP... I typed out this long winded response yesterday and it didn't post. Ok lets see if I can type this all out again.

Yes I used the word "I" a lot when describing how things were going. It came out that way because I was doing most of the work. I don't generally try to pick fights with people because for the most part we get along, tossing another company into the mix that has a pure hatred for us complicates things.

Yes I am an operator, but it is general knowledge that the main 973 operator on any of our sites is the backfill supervisor or foreman as you could call it. It has always worked in the past so I came to this site expecting it would be the same. It is not. I went out to the bar on saturday night and actually ran into some guys from work including the superintendant of this crew. He and I sat down and had a discussion further into whats going on. I voiced my concerns with him and he had the same concerns and he has somewhat come around to my point of view, and I have come around to his point of view and we decided we are going to try and make both work. This morning the other T.L. operator this morning was told I am in charge and if he doesn't like it he can jump onto another piece of equipment. He and I came to an agreement today that he is going to come around to our way of doing things, I am going to come around to their way of doing things, and I am going to chill out a little bit....lol

The loader operator and one of our foreman had a conversation that wheel loader are not to be used for backfill, it is not what they are intended for and its just plain rough on the iron. About 2hrs later his new WA450 was switched out for a WA480 with 13k hrs on it. I don't know why but I imagine there are a few factors involved there.

We have 2 large companies that are being forced into one. Most of the other guys have realized that it's going to be them conforming to us or they can take a hike it sounds like. Our company is entrenched in its ways and I don't see things changing. We are production based, we get things done fast, right and once.... IGL gets things done slow, slow....and sometimes twice. Right now we have a crew that is used to having a 345 for a mainline hoe, no side hoe and a small wheel loader and 963 to run a site like this. We are running an 800 which seems weird to me because we never mainline with anything but the 385's.

Today went great around site, I got a new dirt tester who is actually my friend. I make his life easy by throwing in good lifts, making sure everything is packed correctly and he in turn will let the odd little thing slide and.... he brings me coffee :drinkup

The dark stain on today is my packer operator. He is/was a foreman with IGL, still has a truck and isn't really useful for anything. He is running the packer for me and wow its an experience. This morning it was over 45 minutes between the time I started and the time he managed to mosey on over to the ditch.. I was waiting and 5 minutes later so was the other 973. He gave everything a half decent pack job and by half decent I mean.... not correctly. I had a very friendly chat with him asking him to kindly go back and pack the spots he quite obviously missed. The first words out of his mouth were to go do something with myself. His next comment was to get back in my machine and worry about my job. Well I informed him it was my job and it turned into 20 minutes of he and I having an unfriendly conversation about what needs to be done. He pulled the whole I am a foreman card and well I can't really argue with that but I do still need things to be done correctly.

I did manage to hear my favourite line from him "In my home country I am engineer" well in my country he is a packer operator. My companion tossed in a lift on one part of the ditch that was needless to say was too wet. Well the packer operator went in there full vibrate and brought up all the moisture and screwed us. We came up with a plan, raked the dirt to let it dry and the dirt cop agreed it was a good plan. The packer operator went in right away and started packing again with full vibrate. 15 minutes later we pulled the lift out because he really (insert cuss word of choice here) us. He started blaming the other track loader operator and I quickly came to his defense because it wasn't his fault.... it was like a bonding moment for us...lol

Needless to say.... I am stuck with this loser foreman on my packer. I might be in luck though, the IGL super is on holidays as of tommorrow and one of our supers is going to take over.... can anyone say hostile takeover....lol

 

[Buckethead]

but it is general knowledge that the main 973 operator on any of our sites is the backfill supervisor or foreman as you could call it. It has always worked in the past

Fair enough, but was that crew told that? They are new to your company.

We are production based, we get things done fast, right and once.... IGL gets things done slow, slow....and sometimes twice.

We know, we know, everybody else is screwed up but you guys are perfect.

He pulled the whole I am a foreman card

His next comment was to get back in my machine and worry about my job.

So? You pulled the "loader operator is a foreman" card on him. And you are challenging his authority as foreman, what do you expect?

I am stuck with this loser foreman on my packer.

You own the packer?

can anyone say hostile takeover....lol

Yep, you are pretty hostile alright. Do you really need to personally like people to work with them? Maybe you should lose the tough guy attitude, you are a grown man, working at a responsible job. Or are you still in high school?

 

[Burnout]

Fair enough, but was that crew told that? They are new to your company.



We know, we know, everybody else is screwed up but you guys are perfect.





So? You pulled the "loader operator is a foreman" card on him. And you are challenging his authority as foreman, what do you expect?


You own the packer?


Yep, you are pretty hostile alright. Do you really need to personally like people to work with them? Maybe you should lose the tough guy attitude, you are a grown man, working at a responsible job. Or are you still in high school?

Whilst you have made many good points there.. well lets face it you made good points. To the first question.... yes the other track loader operator and packer operator were told I was to be in charge. The new packer operator was not told because he just got transferred to this crew because of other reasons I can't talk about.

We are perfect but everyone else is screwed up? Nope... we are far from perfect. But this other company was hemeraging money through a huge boom in the industry here. They got dumped by the second largest aggregate company on earth because of it.... seems like a good enough reason to me to evaluate things.


I don't challenge his authority as a foreman, I challenge his knowledge as a packer operator. He is an awful packer operator, not because of his attitude but because of his lack of knowledge on basic packing skills, like hitting everything, not using the vibrate on wet material and some other little things. I tried to have a discussion with the man about it as men. He went on the defensive immediately.

A little background on me chasing down packer operators to do a good job.... Last year I was being the nicest guy I could be with my operator. It was a new operator I let some things slide but made sure they were up to our standards. I let a small spot pass that I knew wasn't packed and it just happened to be the day the head of our division was on site. He walked around came over had me walk around with him and went directly to that small spot.... the first words out of his mouth were "I hope this isn't a reflection on your work". He gave me some advice on doing my job. His next piece of guidance was "You aren't here to make friends, if you have to be an (insert name here) then be it" I changed my tube quickly and got the 2 packer operators I had whipped into shape and now they have been stolen by our most senior loader man.

Yes I have hostility, I love my job. I know I can be taken the wrong way I expect a lot of myself, I worry about everything moreso than I should. I come off as harsh and I am more than willing to tell people that on site, and I know I have said it here. I don't worry about hurting someones feelings on site... I don't expect them to worry about hurting mine. I like low stress jobs with something easy to do, I don't have that but I still love what I do. It has taken a toll on me but I still manage to keep on truckin. Like I said I know I come off harsh but thats just me and thats the environment I grew up in, and oddly enough I work for a company that operates on the same principle. We are ALL replaceable.

 

[roddyo]

Whilst you have made many good points there.. well lets face it you made good points. To the first question.... yes the other track loader operator and packer operator were told I was to be in charge. The new packer operator was not told because he just got transferred to this crew because of other reasons I can't talk about.

We are perfect but everyone else is screwed up? Nope... we are far from perfect. But this other company was hemeraging money through a huge boom in the industry here. They got dumped by the second largest aggregate company on earth because of it.... seems like a good enough reason to me to evaluate things.


I don't challenge his authority as a foreman, I challenge his knowledge as a packer operator. He is an awful packer operator, not because of his attitude but because of his lack of knowledge on basic packing skills, like hitting everything, not using the vibrate on wet material and some other little things. I tried to have a discussion with the man about it as men. He went on the defensive immediately.

A little background on me chasing down packer operators to do a good job.... Last year I was being the nicest guy I could be with my operator. It was a new operator I let some things slide but made sure they were up to our standards. I let a small spot pass that I knew wasn't packed and it just happened to be the day the head of our division was on site. He walked around came over had me walk around with him and went directly to that small spot.... the first words out of his mouth were "I hope this isn't a reflection on your work". He gave me some advice on doing my job. His next piece of guidance was "You aren't here to make friends, if you have to be an (insert name here) then be it" I changed my tube quickly and got the 2 packer operators I had whipped into shape and now they have been stolen by our most senior loader man.

Yes I have hostility, I love my job. I know I can be taken the wrong way I expect a lot of myself, I worry about everything moreso than I should. I come off as harsh and I am more than willing to tell people that on site, and I know I have said it here. I don't worry about hurting someones feelings on site... I don't expect them to worry about hurting mine. I like low stress jobs with something easy to do, I don't have that but I still love what I do. It has taken a toll on me but I still manage to keep on truckin. Like I said I know I come off harsh but thats just me and thats the environment I grew up in, and oddly enough I work for a company that operates on the same principle. We are ALL replaceable.

You might have been a little clearer up front that you was there to help them understand YOUR companies way of doing things and to help incorperate them into your company. Also, somewhere down the line the other forman's won't be near the understanding fellow that you are.

BTW, everything you have done sounds reasonable to me.

 

[dogboneshd]

From the outside looking in it sounds like your company has put you in a position that normally is performed by a foreman. Not only is that unfair to you but to the other guys that are not on the same page. Ramming you down their throats is poor management on your company's part. Just my .02

 

[stock]

From the outside looking in it sounds like your company has put you in a position that normally is performed by a foreman. Not only is that unfair to you but to the other guys that are not on the same page. Ramming you down their throats is poor management on your company's part. Just my .02

Well Said

 

[dozerdave]

Hi Guys,

I just don't understand why a company would have a supervisor and a 4man on the job and then tell the loader operator to run the show. Oh well, I guess stranger things have happened.

 

[stock]

CRAP...

Yes I am an operator, but it is general knowledge that the main 973 operator on any of our sites is the backfill supervisor or foreman as you could call it. It has always worked in the past so I came to this site expecting it would be the same. It is not. I went out to the bar on saturday night and actually ran into some guys from work including the superintendant of this crew. He and I sat down and had a discussion further into whats going on. I voiced my concerns with him

...lol

Would this explain the reason?

 

[dozerdave]

Hi Stock,

Good One.

 

[Burnout]

Hi Guys,

I just don't understand why a company would have a supervisor and a 4man on the job and then tell the loader operator to run the show. Oh well, I guess stranger things have happened.

We run that was because the foreman generally has enough to worry about than to try and hold the backfill crews hand. Right now it isn't so bad but we get jobs where we are working a half mile from the pipe crew so they appoint the 973 operator or main 973 operator if there are 2 the backfill supervisor. Its kind of like an honorary position. You still answer to the foreman, but if something goes wrong the superintendant comes and chews me out instead of the foreman. Then he goes to tell the foreman and I get chewed out again.... its pretty not fun...lol That is why we run backfill almost as a seperate crew. We work with our little group, they have their group and it works for the best. I like it because we dont generally get involved with the pipe drama when things go bad on their end and in the same respect they get saved from our drama when dirt doesn't play nice.

Yes I am in a bit of a crappy position to have a position of power but no real power to go along with it. It's nice to know that they trust you, but at the same time if you have a problem you still have to go talk to higher powers.

Today I was greeted on site by one of our higher powers to help iron some stuff out. He informed me that our packer operator/foreman..... is not an actual foreman. He is a guy who runs around with a bobcat to sweep roads who just gave himself a white hardhat. He got put in his place by one of our white hardhats and the score has definately changed on site.

Today was a great day, The other 973 was down most of the day which meant I was free to romp around massaging things to the way I generally like to see them. I get picky with my work. Ditches are left level, sides are generally cut nice and straight, spill piles are nice and round and the manholes are all notches around so the 973 can drive on either side of them. It's not so much company policy that guides this, its more my OCD that I like to leave things looking proper and nice. People drive by this site including company big wigs, city inspectors, the competition and the public. It takes very little time to leave things looking nice and its nice that it gets noticed. 3 people complimented me on the fit and finish of the ditch today. I can admit I have weird ideas and ways of doing things when it comes to backfill but I feel it makes everything look more professional and safer. Plus... later this week when we start services I am prepared on my end for backfill. Our piles are spread out and drying to the 18% moisture we need, the ditch is level and wide enough for the service hoe to jump down and sand up services, the wheel loader can drive around on piles if he needs to bring supplies and everything is level for the 800C to sit on and dig the services. We are ready for WW3 on services, instead of running around freaking out with wet material and destroyed sites once the services are in.

 

[dozerdave]

Hi Burnout,

I am glad that some of your issues are being worked out on the site and that the crew is happy with the results. We probably all like a project to run the way we are accustomed to and the fewer suprises the better. I have worked in 3 different states and 4 foreign countrys and just never found the need to have a skinner run a part of the show. Costs of equipment being what they are I figure it's cheaper to hire a 4man and have the equipment working study. It could also be a safety issue on some high density sites such as a dam project where you might be handeling over 4,000 yds. of fill per hour. No I never worked a pipeline job.

 

[stock]

"Yes I am in a bit of a crappy position to have a position of power but no real power to go along with it. It's nice to know that they trust you, but at the same time if you have a problem you still have to go talk to higher powers. " quote from Burnout



"Responsibility without power, the Prerogative of the eunuch through out the ages"

 

[amunderdog]

:my2c
Who ever is the main boss should come out to the site and have a meeting.
Explain to the crew the chain of command and how your job site is structured.
This is just a case of no one knowing the chain of command.
Once there is clear chain of command; you and the few people you lead, can go to work and leave the rest of the job to the others.

 

[Burnout]

:my2c
Who ever is the main boss should come out to the site and have a meeting.
Explain to the crew the chain of command and how your job site is structured.
This is just a case of no one knowing the chain of command.
Once there is clear chain of command; you and the few people you lead, can go to work and leave the rest of the job to the others.

That has now happened and that is what has definately made things better, at least for me. I will admit the other 973 operator is all butt hurt right now because I have been making do with just myself rockin around site instead of both machines burning fuel. This morning the foreman told him he needed to find something to do and stop sitting around watching me work. I gave him some nice tasks to do that would take him all day but he would go over, get it half done lose interest and then come over to bug me. I was up witht he pipe crew once again, pushing away when needed, backfilling, setting up for tommorrow and had time to sit and make a video for you fine folks. I left him a giant piece of ditch to go and level out and make nice, he spent an hour over there came over and told me it was complete. So I gave him some more stuff to do and he was all butt hurt over the fact that he didn't get to do the main backfill. I said cool I left him to backfill and went and worked on the random crap. I drove byt he bigger project I had given him and holy crap, it was horrendous. So I dug it out again, made it look right because tommorrow we are digging services in that ditch. I then killed some random projects and was called over by the foreman to fix things because my dirt cop was all stirred up about wet dirt.

I now have in essence a track loader operator that just wanders around half finishing things... which is cool with me. We are firing up another crew in the next few days and it sounds like I am leaving to go to that subdivision so this guy is gonna be screwed when I leave, and I can keep more than busy staying in the background tidying things up and playing with the sat radio.

The funny part of this morning was the other 973 operator sitting there telling me that the superintendant I worked for at Waiward who is from IGL is coming over to Sureway to be our new boss. The main reason I left Waiward is because of that guy not knowing anything about anything. He was a great guy to talk to, but just couldn't grasp being a super. So the other operator here said that this guy is coming over here and his first task was running me off site. I thought it was kind of funny since he was fired from Sureway 6 months ago. I ended up calling a friend at Waiward to find out the skinny and he thought it was just as funny to give up a permanent job at Waiward for 160k a year to come over here and be a foreman again.