I have a hitachi 200-3 that will pull down and stall the engine. Moving a function will relieve the engine, but once the functions are back to neutral the engine pulls down and smokes. Dr zx says code 22 abnormal pump control. I manually destroke the pump then once started the pump angle matches the angle signal. Gradually the angle increases while the signal is telling it to lower. I have replaced the angle sensor, rpm sensor, and pvc. The dp sensor is also less than a year old and it has two new solenoids. The machine started out going into modes where it would work fine most of the time and occasionally go into a slow mode. Now all it does is go into the pull down. I have had mechanics work on it without any luck and now I'm trying to figure it out. Hopefully someone can help me out since it seems this is a common problem, but I haven't seen where there's been a solution. The only ideas I have would be the dp although I'm 99% sure it's not since it's nearly new and I have swapped one from another machine. The other thing would be the wiring but I am getting voltage to the solenoids. Thanks in advance I'll be very grateful for whoever can help me fix this headache.
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Hitachi 200-3 pump goes to full stroke
- Thread starter Ereed
- Start date
rgl726
Well-Known Member
try to swap the high speed solenoid.
I have swapped solenoids to the point of swapping new ones with more new ones so I'm positive it's not a solenoid problem. The only thing I have noticed is that with the solenoid unplugged that destrokes the pump will show 22 volts, but when the solenoid is plugged in there is no voltage. I would assume I'm losing ground either through a bad wire or something else causing it. To clarify the voltage both solenoids have 28 volts while running testing on the hot wire and grounding to the machine, but when it wants to destroke and I test off the hot wire and off the ground in the plug it's 22.
rgl726
Well-Known Member
I know it doesn't mean that if there is voltage the solenoid is working.
have you fitted it with original solenoid? or just the china replacement?
have you fitted it with original solenoid? or just the china replacement?
I have swapped them several times and each time no matter which one is where the stroking of the pump will occur so that is how I would assume they both work. Also in a workshop manual I learned you can control the solenoids by unplugging them and applying a 12 volt source to them to activate them. That's how I'm getting it back destroked since it doesn't run very long without the pump gradually going into stroke.
rgl726
Well-Known Member
also check if you have reading by DR zx on the RPM sensor.
I'm showing rpms, and have even replaced that sensor just to rule it out. The machine acts like it should watching the dr zx it loads the pump when it should it just can't get it destroked. I appreciate the help this thing has been a mess.
Just to clarify a few things.
The solenoids should have 24+ volts to each one all the time, When they switch they are earthed out in the computer.
Now when the pump is at full stroke does the DR say that the destroke solenoid is active?
When you say that you can destroke the pump using a jumper wire did you have to earth it as well to get it to work?
The solenoids should have 24+ volts to each one all the time, When they switch they are earthed out in the computer.
Now when the pump is at full stroke does the DR say that the destroke solenoid is active?
When you say that you can destroke the pump using a jumper wire did you have to earth it as well to get it to work?
The hot wire when tested with one lead on the hot wire and the other grounded to the frame will show 24 key on and around 28 engine running. When the stroke solenoid is activated it reads 28 when tested on both wires at the plug. The destroke when tested the same way shows around 22, but when the solenoid is plugged in the 22 volts disappears. To be more specific the pump isn't going to full stroke, it is simply up stroking as the machine needs and the computer tells it to. At that time dr zx is showing that it is sending signal to destroke. The jumper wire setup is off of a 12 volt battery and I'm powering and grounding it from the battery. I think the 22 volts would be enough to make the solenoid to work, but with it plugged in I'm losing ground I assume.
Try running a separate 24v wire to the solenoid and separate ground. They are 24v coils so I doubt that 12v would be enough to power it. Yes 22v should work but you say you loose the voltage when you plug it into the solenoid.
If the pump destrokes ok with a separate power supply you can look at the wiring. Behind the seat there is a bank of relays I can't remember whether there is 1 or 2 relays for the pump control solenoids.
The pvc switches to earth to energize. The fact that you say you have 22v with no resistance is a bit low. You say that you lose all voltage when you plug the wire in so that tells me that as soon as some resistance comes into the circuit the voltage drops which indicates a fault somewhere in the wiring/Pvc or power supply.
Just had a look at a book it seems that there is one relay and the connector at the pvc is no 111 and 103 which are the earth return to the pvc. So you can check these with a multi meter to see if the wire is ok.
another way to test is put a 24v light bulb in series with the solenoid and see if it lights up. You need to be sure about what you are doing because the next step in the pvc itself.
I have had them play up a bit. If you pull it apart you might find that a Diode /resistor has burnt out. I have had pretty good success by just looking for something burnt and replacing it with something for a local electronics store.
regard Mike
If the pump destrokes ok with a separate power supply you can look at the wiring. Behind the seat there is a bank of relays I can't remember whether there is 1 or 2 relays for the pump control solenoids.
The pvc switches to earth to energize. The fact that you say you have 22v with no resistance is a bit low. You say that you lose all voltage when you plug the wire in so that tells me that as soon as some resistance comes into the circuit the voltage drops which indicates a fault somewhere in the wiring/Pvc or power supply.
Just had a look at a book it seems that there is one relay and the connector at the pvc is no 111 and 103 which are the earth return to the pvc. So you can check these with a multi meter to see if the wire is ok.
another way to test is put a 24v light bulb in series with the solenoid and see if it lights up. You need to be sure about what you are doing because the next step in the pvc itself.
I have had them play up a bit. If you pull it apart you might find that a Diode /resistor has burnt out. I have had pretty good success by just looking for something burnt and replacing it with something for a local electronics store.
regard Mike
If I remember right, the solenoid gets full voltage and sends it to the computer to be grounded to complete the circuit. You would have to put your voltmeter in series to see what the system is doing. How do you "manually destroke the pump"?
lucian
Member
check your relief valve
Mike, I have made the solenoids work with 12 with no problems. I assumed there was just one relay but I'm unsure. I am calling that one the second one from the boom side. The 111 and 103 are wires running to the solenoids right ? I have a new pvc in it right now and it acts the same as when it had the old one in. And a question for you and Wilko I'm assuming the solenoids work by grounding, but is one wire a hot and one a ground or is one a hot and the solenoid completes the circuit sending juice back to the computer where it regulates voltage? Thanks guys!
Lucian I have always thought a relief valve could be a possibility, but it seems to be a problem on the pump stroke side. Do you have a reason to believe it could be the relief. Where do I find the relief valve and what should a check? Thanks
'The destroke when tested the same way shows around 22, but when the solenoid is plugged in the 22 volts disappears.'
If you are using A DMM to test your voltage you can help yourself get correct readings by also at time of testing use a test light probe and do not use a LED type test probe..
If you are reading 22V unplugged but nothing plugged use the probe with the DMM in the UNplugged test.. if voltage goes to nothing you have a wiring issue..
If you are using A DMM to test your voltage you can help yourself get correct readings by also at time of testing use a test light probe and do not use a LED type test probe..
If you are reading 22V unplugged but nothing plugged use the probe with the DMM in the UNplugged test.. if voltage goes to nothing you have a wiring issue..
Mike, The 111 and 103 are wires running to the solenoids right ? I have a new pvc in it right now and it acts the same as when it had the old one in. And a question for you and Wilko I'm assuming the solenoids work by grounding, but is one wire a hot and one a ground or is one a hot and the solenoid completes the circuit sending juice back to the computer where it regulates voltage? Thanks guys!
The wire numbers are from the solenoid to the pvc, They are from a dash 2 model so i hope the dash3 is the same number you may have to check.
Yes you have 24v coming from the pump control relay all the time.
The solenoid is in series between the pump control relay and the 111,103 wires in the pvc.
The pvc completes the circuit to earth.
The solenoids are switch on and off they are not proportional in this case
regards Mike
I checked the wire it doesn't seem to be cut or shorted. I ran another wire just to be safe and it didn't fix anything. I can put the wire to metal which completes the ground thus activating the solenoid. Basically I'm back where I started. My dr zx is showing the signal to destroke does that mean the computer is grounding it or are there other factors between what the dr zx shows and what the computer is doing. I have checked and cleaned the grounds before and since one solenoid has enough ground to work wouldn't the other or are from separate sources.
The two wires going to the pvc are separate earths for each solenoid.
Are you saying that when you earth one of these wires (111/103) at the pvc the solenoid destrokes the pump?
The pcv switches to earth the coil.
Sorry forgot, If the DR is saying that the solenoid is energized I think that it is reading the command to switch and not necessarily the fact that it has switched. ( I'm guessing here)
regards Mike
Are you saying that when you earth one of these wires (111/103) at the pvc the solenoid destrokes the pump?
The pcv switches to earth the coil.
Sorry forgot, If the DR is saying that the solenoid is energized I think that it is reading the command to switch and not necessarily the fact that it has switched. ( I'm guessing here)
regards Mike
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You can put a multi meter on the output from the PVC and compare the resistance with the good output to see what you get. Should have no resistance when switched.
Maybe you have a cold solder inside the PVC?? which is causing a bad earth.
regards Mike
Maybe you have a cold solder inside the PVC?? which is causing a bad earth.
regards Mike