Hill Climbing Question

[CraneInnovation]

Hey guys, I'm wondering if you could answer a question my friend and I have about hill climbing with an excavator. Neither of us are professional operators, but we can handle a hoe pretty well for novices.

When climbing a hill, it seems like the convention we've heard from most operators is to reach up the hill and pull yourself up. We did a job recently with some steep hill climbing (in 4-5 ton minis) and we found that rarely worked. However, turning around and pushing down with the boom and stick worked every time. If the machine had juuuust enough traction, reaching up the hill with the stick all the way out seemed to give the tracks a bit more bite. However, as soon as traction failed, putting the bucket into the ground and pulling didn't help much. However, swing around and push.....and up she'd come.

I see pictures and YouTube videos all the time with a hoe stuck down a hill or in a hole with the boom reaching up the slope to no avail. If this technique seems less effective, why does it seem to be considered the "right" way to do it?

I tried to think of a few reasons on my own, and the only ones I came up with were that you can better see where you are going and you technically have a bit more hydraulic power available because you're pushing with the stick cylinder instead of pulling. However, most machines can easily push their own weight up anyhow.

Is there another mechanical or safety reason why pulling is better than pushing?

Thanks!

 

[buckfever]

I could see where this would be a problem with a small machine but with bigger iron you dig the bucket in to act like a anchor and pull your self up. Most times I found that pushing just drives the tracks into the ground.

 

[MX45]

OK - my 5c worth from only occasional operator.

I am on steep country - ie 15 degree to 30 degree slope.

Weight of the boom, dipper and bucket uphill allows machine to be more balanced - downhill at those angles machine is overbalanced and precarious.

There are also firm ideas about which way you have your drives on other threads due to tracks buckling and slipping.

My advice is don't take the risk even if it pushes a bit better,

.MX45,

 

[Labparamour]

Thinking out loud here: don't smaller machines share one pump where larger machines have separate pumps and maybe that makes a difference? The mini's I've run seem to get sluggish if you try too many functions.

 

[Huntoon]

As buckfever said, you are pushing into the ground. this would increase the amount of traction available. perhaps by pulling, you are keeping the tracks 'light'. And perhaps this varies from a mini-ex to a larger machine

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Some of this depends on the ground conditions as well. Large machine or small, if you can't get a "bite" then you will have a hard time pulling yourself up, while using the push method, the smallest crack can sometimes be enough to get the grip needed to push off. Also, when pulling up, you will unload the weight from the uphill end of the tracks, and usually causing less total traction. Again, it depends on ground conditions.
The OP mentioned mostly mini ex's, and most of these have a blade. The blade should always be downhill, for use as an anchor, and to lengthen the base to prevent overturning the machine. I know people who have tipped one over with the blade uphill. This does go against the proper location to have the sprockets when climbing or descending, which would be on the downhill end. This is less of an issue with the small machines, and the benefits of the blade being downhill outweigh the benefits of the sprocket position.

I have worked hoes on steep ground for many years, in all sizes from 3 ton minis to 80 ton machines. There are many factors to look at on each job. For the bigger machines, sprockets always downhill. Pushing or pulling is a difference of ground. I have pushed my way up 200+ ft of 50% grade, or 2:1 slope if you like, with a 32K series 235. I pushed, because it would not pull the stick in and walk at the same time, but it would lower the boom and stick out while walking (slowly) up the hill. I have pulled up out of holes with 30 ton to 80 ton machines, when trying to push just resulted in a buried bucket and dipper. In soft ground, sometimes you have to alternate pushing and pulling, as too much of either will cause one end to sink into the ground.

Make sure to wear you r seatbelt, as it is hard to control a machine on a slope while trying to keep yourself from falling out of the seat. While properly operating an excavator, both hands and both feet are busy, leaving nothing to grab with to stay seated. The safest place is in the seat.

One more thing. If you get in over your head, STOP. Calling for help is easier than having an accident because you did not know what to do next.

 

[CraneInnovation]

Some of this depends on the ground conditions as well. Large machine or small, if you can't get a "bite" then you will have a hard time pulling yourself up, while using the push method, the smallest crack can sometimes be enough to get the grip needed to push off. Also, when pulling up, you will unload the weight from the uphill end of the tracks, and usually causing less total traction. Again, it depends on ground conditions.
The OP mentioned mostly mini ex's, and most of these have a blade. The blade should always be downhill, for use as an anchor, and to lengthen the base to prevent overturning the machine. I know people who have tipped one over with the blade uphill. This does go against the proper location to have the sprockets when climbing or descending, which would be on the downhill end. This is less of an issue with the small machines, and the benefits of the blade being downhill outweigh the benefits of the sprocket position.

I have worked hoes on steep ground for many years, in all sizes from 3 ton minis to 80 ton machines. There are many factors to look at on each job. For the bigger machines, sprockets always downhill. Pushing or pulling is a difference of ground. I have pushed my way up 200+ ft of 50% grade, or 2:1 slope if you like, with a 32K series 235. I pushed, because it would not pull the stick in and walk at the same time, but it would lower the boom and stick out while walking (slowly) up the hill. I have pulled up out of holes with 30 ton to 80 ton machines, when trying to push just resulted in a buried bucket and dipper. In soft ground, sometimes you have to alternate pushing and pulling, as too much of either will cause one end to sink into the ground.

Make sure to wear you r seatbelt, as it is hard to control a machine on a slope while trying to keep yourself from falling out of the seat. While properly operating an excavator, both hands and both feet are busy, leaving nothing to grab with to stay seated. The safest place is in the seat.

One more thing. If you get in over your head, STOP. Calling for help is easier than having an accident because you did not know what to do next.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys! Looks like its machine/condition dependent.

We kept the blades downhill at all times for rollover safety and they make a great anchor while you reposition the boom. Would have been very different with no blade. I did all the steel terrain stuff and tried to stay out of bad situations. I made a road down the hill as much as I could without borrowing from half their yard. I got it juuuust shallow enough that the machine would track straight up and down. We got some rain and that, combined with settlement, meant there were a few trips up that turned into climbs.

I made sure anyone who got in the machine had their belt on. Yes, climbing up hill is a two hands and feet operation! I tried to reiterate that even when letting some of the new guys dig stumps and rocks out that it was VERY easy to throw yourself out of the seat when tugging on roots or rocks.

Here's a picture of the middle of the hill work. I essentially went down to retrieve three trees we had cut down. Built a road down, passed the logs up the hill to another machine, then dug the road back up. The original slope was closer to what you see on the right. It was a blast, and we learned an awful lot.