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Help quoting large demo

Discussion in 'Demolition' started by suladas, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    I got a large building to quote a demo on, it's bigger then anything i've quoted before and second guessing myself how many bins it will take. Don't have access to the inside, but told it is empty, and mostly gutted to studs, some drywalled areas left. It's on a wood foundation with about a 4' crawlspace. Outside is mostly stucco, some vinyl siding, and shakes, I know a fair bit is going to be heavy. It was a old church so expecting a fair amount is big open rooms.

    Looking for help from the experts, how many 40 yard bins do you think this building would be, and how much do you figure it would weight? Just want to be sure i'm close.

    The footprint of the main floor is about 3000 sqft.

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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  2. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    First of all I would NOT bid that job if I couldn't get inside to see what's in each room. I was burned one time on a job assuming the rooms were empty only to be stacked floor to ceiling with wet, heavy personal items.

    For wood structures with no brick facade, I use 1,000 SF = 100 CY of debris. You'll need to figure footings, foundation walls and slabs separately.

    I use 30 yard cans that will average 9 tons each on a wood frame demo job. The first cans will run 5-7 tons and the last cans will run 10-11 tons as you haul out the fines. We haul all the concrete foundations, block and brick in dump trucks to inert dumps so that is not included in the tonnages above.
     
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  3. RollOver Pete

    RollOver Pete Senior Member

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    Those who would even consider bidding a job like this without actually visiting the site have more balls than brains.
     
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  4. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Yep, no way will I ever bid another job without walking through it. I did a small house that was stacked floor to ceiling with everything you can imagine, only thing that kept me from losing was the amount of scrap in the weeds around it.
     
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  5. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    40yd. bins are too easy to overload. Most demo contractors use large high sided end dumps because they can haul more weight and bulky items than a standard roll off bin. I did a couple garage demo's and on one the customer ordered a 40yd bin. It was a pain to load with a small track loader and I had to go back and remove some concrete sidewalk blocks they wanted removed because it was too heavy. Driver said tandem roll off bin is only good for about 9 tons. Standard dump truck carries a lot more weight wise.

    My former neighbor had the largest roll off truck in Edmonton in the 80's (a semi trailer with 60yd. bins). He made some kind of purchase/trade deal with the company that originally bought it. I did a bunch of welding on it and also made a bin out of an old back up water tank (for fire fighting) for a school or hospital or something. Was interesting cutting the tank in 2. I found the original center punch marks from when it was made in the 60's which made it a lot easier to mark out. General scrap has a similar roll off trailer. Neighbor was getting more into demo in the mid 80's and thought the roll off would give him an advantage because a driver could just exchange bins and not have to wait to be loaded. The company is pretty big now but they use end dumps. Are there specific details for the demolition such as recycling and separating materials? Depending on who put the tender out can have a lot of the details of the job explained including estimated cubic yds. I don't know if it's easy to compete with dedicated demo contractors on bigger jobs than garages and simple homes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM
  6. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Mitch my screw up didn't have any scrap just heavy, wet crap stacked floor to ceiling in the back to bedrooms. The house was burned in the front living room and kitchen area and was boarded up some but enough for me to stick my head in and go "piece of cake" - big mistake. The 2 rear bedrooms were floor to ceiling.

    Lost a couple grand on that one. Making things worse was the house was in a very rough part of town that we had to haul our equipment out every night adding to the expense.

    I don't know the weight rules and regulations in Canada but when I was a partner in a dumpster company our tandem axle hook lift could pull a 20 CY can with 20 tons in it no problem. Now that tandem truck was not legal going down the road weight wise but it would do it. That hooklift truck was legal with a 15 ton load on it including the can weight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020 at 12:46 AM
  7. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    I think you mean wasn't legal. The weird thing with that particular truck was that it didn't have the big roller on the back to put on the ground when loading (also was on grass and not pavement) so the front wheels came way up in the air. That would certainly explain the 9 ton limit. The 40yd. bins are just too high to load unless you have bigger equipment to load them. I had to go back to that job twice and then cut my bill because the customer blamed me for putting too much dirt in it. The old sidewalk blocks were poured in place 6-8" thick. Hard to dig them out with a loader and not have a little dirt.
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Yep - edited after I read my post.
     
  9. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    I have never done work for the owner, but i'm quoting it through someone i've done a fair amount of work for who is good and doesn't even get other bids, I just price it and i've got the job and is ok with paying a bit of a premium for good work. I don't know for sure but I think as long as they think my price is reasonable, I will have the job. I know at least no "new Canadians" will be trying to undercut it as the guy absolutely hates them and won't have anything to do with them. It would definitely be big enough some of the bigger companies would bid on it, no idea what they charge never seen one of their quotes. I get really good pricing on bins so as long as they didn't want the job for free I don't think they'd be pricing any lower.

    I don't know why he didn't want me to see the inside, assuming just the hassle of arranging with owner. I was able to look into the crawl space but that's it. I've never spoken to the owner. I did say and it will be very clear in my quote it is quoted based on the building being empty, and upon inspection to make sure no one is inside, if it is full of stuff extra charges will apply. It's not how I want to do it, but at least it covers me and i'm not doing a job for free. I've got screwed a few times, I had one house that the basement was piled right to the joists. It took like 8 40 yards bins for a 800 sq/ft bungalow. I do find demos a bit of the you win some you loose some as it's impossible to estimate exactly what it weighs. But on a job this size I don't want to be on the wrong side. The city requiring removal of asbestos helps as many houses are gutted to studs, and they cannot do the abatement on houses if they are full of junk. Although I had one they just took everything out of the house and put it in the yard....

    I use 40 yard bins only, 30 is too slow. Loading with my 210 the height is no problem. I've had as high as 14 tons a few times, they generally only complain when they are over 12. A lot depends on the company and the driver. I had one driver who tried to show he wasn't able to pick up a bin and the front of the truck was coming off the ground and it turned out to only be about 12 tons simply didn't know what he was doing. 14 ton bin won't do that with a driver who knows what they are doing. Haul away all concrete with tandem dump trucks as much cheaper then bins. The big guys like Visco and All west, etc have 80 yard demo trailers but one advantage of this job is it's very close to the dump my guy uses, and much further from all of the demo companies yards. Nothing specific for the quote, it's just a guy who owns the building and wanted helping finding a contractor from the guy he knows as he doesn't know anything about it.

    I'm pretty close to 100 yards/1000 sq/ft. When quoting houses I go between 200-250 sq/ft for 40 yard bin depending if it's two story, bungalow, shape of roof, etc.

    Going through the numbers I was coming up with worst case scenario, 30 40 yard bins averaging a weight of 10 tons. Obviously assuming building is reasonably empty. I would expect it to be actually about 25 bins, but being really safe with 30. You guys think that's a pretty safe number? A really heavy demo I average 10 tons a bin, but most are around 8.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020 at 5:32 AM
  10. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    I stand by my earlier statement, nothing but by the hour and dump fees is safe without a walk through.
     
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  11. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Ditto.