Hello all! New Here. Anyone recently switch from an H to an M?

[Fatgraderman]

Unfortunately almost everything is going to electric over hydraulic. Easier to run wires than Hydraulic hoses. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not. I think you would appreciate an M demo in a slower environment for the first time. The steering is a little tricky until you get used to it. I don't have trouble with it when working but roading is still another story. Of course plowing snow you wouldn't be going as fast, but it still could catch you off guard. Everything is in the opposite hand so you will be relearning all of the controls.

Thanks. I wondered about things being in opposite hands before. Ran into that with some little crawlers. Biggest thing for us is that we can get comfortable snow plowing with them. We have come down several hill backwards and sideways (gotta love freezing rains, even chains don't help much then). And it's gotta be something that you're comfortable doing 14-22mph plowing snow in or the ridges off the wing catch drifting so bad. I have no doubt that something slow would be best for first time though. On the flip side, if you're coming down a hill backwards, you can get an m into reverse faster. I do kinda like the Volvo for that. The John Deere and the H, you're already sliding by the time you can get the shifter around to the other side.

 

[Radrock]

Thanks. I wondered about things being in opposite hands before. Ran into that with some little crawlers. Biggest thing for us is that we can get comfortable snow plowing with them. We have come down several hill backwards and sideways (gotta love freezing rains, even chains don't help much then). And it's gotta be something that you're comfortable doing 14-22mph plowing snow in or the ridges off the wing catch drifting so bad. I have no doubt that something slow would be best for first time though. On the flip side, if you're coming down a hill backwards, you can get an m into reverse faster. I do kinda like the Volvo for that. The John Deere and the H, you're already sliding by the time you can get the shifter around to the other side.

Yes I have plowed lots of snow in the Colorado Mountains with a grader. Hopefully you get a 6 wheel drive as it is a lot better in the hills. Here is Missouri we have lots of freezing rain a well but I don't usually have to get out and plow snow with them. It is usually one or the other but not both. Yes the M will shift a lot faster in reverse. In fact they don't even recommend using the Modulator pedal. Just flip the switch. One thing you want to watch though, If you are use to using the articulation a lot backing up, It is awkward. I know it is ok after you get use to it but for some reason my mind wants to twist the handle the wrong direction when going backwards. If I slow down and think about it I am ok but I still tend to do it from time to time. Make sure you practice that some before just taking off and doing it. With the joystick steering it is very easy to just use the front wheels when backing up. I like that part a lot. Good Luck

 

[Fatgraderman]

Yes I have plowed lots of snow in the Colorado Mountains with a grader. Hopefully you get a 6 wheel drive as it is a lot better in the hills. Here is Missouri we have lots of freezing rain a well but I don't usually have to get out and plow snow with them. It is usually one or the other but not both. Yes the M will shift a lot faster in reverse. In fact they don't even recommend using the Modulator pedal. Just flip the switch. One thing you want to watch though, If you are use to using the articulation a lot backing up, It is awkward. I know it is ok after you get use to it but for some reason my mind wants to twist the handle the wrong direction when going backwards. If I slow down and think about it I am ok but I still tend to do it from time to time. Make sure you practice that some before just taking off and doing it. With the joystick steering it is very easy to just use the front wheels when backing up. I like that part a lot. Good Luck

Okay. I just seen Missouri. If you lived in Colorado, no doubt you seen snow. If you are having problem with the artic, then a good chance I will too. I have a hell of a time with the Cat skid steers backing up too.:bash Seems backwards to me. We toggle between F & R on the Volvo too. It is pretty nice for cleaning up intersections and highway aprons. Thanks for the help.

 

[Radrock]

Okay. I just seen Missouri. If you lived in Colorado, no doubt you seen snow. If you are having problem with the artic, then a good chance I will too. I have a hell of a time with the Cat skid steers backing up too.:bash Seems backwards to me. We toggle between F & R on the Volvo too. It is pretty nice for cleaning up intersections and highway aprons. Thanks for the help.

I posted a couple of pictures earlier in this thread of a place I plowed snow at. Of course you probably see a lot more snow than I have way up north. We had a Volvo joy stick control on loan for a week or so but I never got the opportunity to run it. It seemed fairly nice from what little I have seen of it. I don't think the joysticks twist on them though. Not positive though.

 

[Fatgraderman]

I posted a couple of pictures earlier in this thread of a place I plowed snow at. Of course you probably see a lot more snow than I have way up north. We had a Volvo joy stick control on loan for a week or so but I never got the opportunity to run it. It seemed fairly nice from what little I have seen of it. I don't think the joysticks twist on them though. Not positive though.

My guess would be that we see the same snow as Colorado. A little colder is all. My neighbour on the farm growing up was from Denver, I'm going on what he told me about there. This year we didn't have any snow! Well a little. But I think we had more rain then last June. And when there's no snow with it, there's nothing you can do with it. Sandvik's leave a few grooves you can see, but really do a limited amount. The two extremes of the last two winters make for some real adventures! I can live with electric over hydraulic or pilot controls. But I do wish they would consider what's comfortable to an operator in adverse circumstances. Is the steering is predictable for you backing up, then it's probably all fine. An operator probably isn't articulating when going down a hill backwards. How often do they do the "realignment"? Could the machine be wanting to do that procedure at a time you can't afford? Or would that be unlikely? The salesmen aren't sure. Can you still get a machine off railroad tracks or off a highway when turning around? What are the "m"'s like to work on? The pump isn't under the cab anymore. That could be a plus. Are the valves in a good place if there's problems? It looks like you don't end up removing the tanks to get at certain things like the "h". Typically the warranty period is about half their service life for us.

 

[NorthRun Grader]

I used a 160M for the first time, for about 4 days last winter, to push back leases, while my 160H was in for repairs. The biggest difference was the controls are backwards. On the H, the gear selector is on your right hand and the dozer is on a left hand stick, on the M the gear select is on the left hand joystick and the dozer is on a separate fingertip button on the right. I had 30+ leases to push the snow back to the berms, needless to say I stalled the grader a lot the first 2 days... Roading was very scary the first time as I had over 35 kilometers of narrow winding hilly road, thankfully it was a quiet road so no witnesses to my wanderings, lol. Don't expect to be productive the first day or so, and don't do any close work. It takes a while to reprogram your muscle memory. I'd say by the time you work your first 4 shifts it gets a lot easier.
In November of this winter I had an opportunity to work with my Dad so we have been sharing a 160M that we have leased from my uncle. This is his second winter on an M and my first full winter, we like it so much that I'm eagerly awaiting a new to us, 2010 160M with lower hours to ship from Kramer in Regina. Hopefully I can post some pictures of them side by side tomorrow night.
Due to the slow down in the oil industry and the milder winter with less then average snow, I haven't had the opportunity to get some serious wide winging done, my Dad loves it, but I do miss my 160H for that application. Last winter in my H I was out in the ditches clearing willows and shrubs on some low sections of roadways getting the snow into the tree lines. Nothing like watching the snow come off a 3' bench scaring the grouse out of the trees .
The only way I'd go back to an H is if we can come up with a good candidate for a CCR so we'd have trouble free spare. The only things I truly miss is having cab vents, and having somewhere to put my lunch box, and the upper glove boxes, with the M's you have to have the fan running either on heat or A/C or the windows fog up. Use your seat belt, cause sliding out and having the grader come to an halt is not fun.

 

[Fatgraderman]

Thanks for the review. We're reluctant, but the resale isn't great on these other machines. CAT doesn't seem to have any interest in re-offering a conventional controls machine, and other options are further dwindling, so I suspect I'll have to get used to one.

 

[Radrock]

My guess would be that we see the same snow as Colorado. A little colder is all. My neighbour on the farm growing up was from Denver, I'm going on what he told me about there. This year we didn't have any snow! Well a little. But I think we had more rain then last June. And when there's no snow with it, there's nothing you can do with it. Sandvik's leave a few grooves you can see, but really do a limited amount. The two extremes of the last two winters make for some real adventures! I can live with electric over hydraulic or pilot controls. But I do wish they would consider what's comfortable to an operator in adverse circumstances. Is the steering is predictable for you backing up, then it's probably all fine. An operator probably isn't articulating when going down a hill backwards. How often do they do the "realignment"? Could the machine be wanting to do that procedure at a time you can't afford? Or would that be unlikely? The salesmen aren't sure. Can you still get a machine off railroad tracks or off a highway when turning around? What are the "m"'s like to work on? The pump isn't under the cab anymore. That could be a plus. Are the valves in a good place if there's problems? It looks like you don't end up removing the tanks to get at certain things like the "h". Typically the warranty period is about half their service life for us.

I missed quite a few days here haha. I don't know how cold it gets up there but When I lived in Westcliffe, Colorado (about 9,000 ft above sea level) it would sometimes get as cold as 30 below. It didn't seem that cold as it was a dry cold. Hardly any humidity there. It still froze things up pretty good though. When backing up that M it isn't too bad. I just never used the articulation backing up. I used the mirrors a lot too. But the realignment is a pain in the rear. It seems ever other time I jumped out of the seat to do something and got bad in the cab I would have to do it again. It sometimes is a little time consuming as well. It doesn't seem to do it at all when you are in the seat moving down the road. I don't think the computer would let that happen but who knows? There is also a supplemental switch that you can turn on to keep it steering in case of problems. I never messed with it to see if it worked or not hahaha. They still turn pretty sharp and you would like the quiet very much. Without that pump underneath you there is not very much noise. The worse noise I noticed was the brakes. They are Hydraulic brakes rather than air brakes. It makes this strange noise sometimes. There are a lot of things that are a plus on them but I thing there are a few that aren't.

 

[Fatgraderman]

I missed quite a few days here haha. I don't know how cold it gets up there but When I lived in Westcliffe, Colorado (about 9,000 ft above sea level) it would sometimes get as cold as 30 below. It didn't seem that cold as it was a dry cold. Hardly any humidity there. It still froze things up pretty good though. When backing up that M it isn't too bad. I just never used the articulation backing up. I used the mirrors a lot too. But the realignment is a pain in the rear. It seems ever other time I jumped out of the seat to do something and got bad in the cab I would have to do it again. It sometimes is a little time consuming as well. It doesn't seem to do it at all when you are in the seat moving down the road. I don't think the computer would let that happen but who knows? There is also a supplemental switch that you can turn on to keep it steering in case of problems. I never messed with it to see if it worked or not hahaha. They still turn pretty sharp and you would like the quiet very much. Without that pump underneath you there is not very much noise. The worse noise I noticed was the brakes. They are Hydraulic brakes rather than air brakes. It makes this strange noise sometimes. There are a lot of things that are a plus on them but I thing there are a few that aren't.

Thanks for getting back to me. If the reallignment is more often then not when you get in or out, I can live with that. I seen how long it can take. I guess we get a little colder here, we see -40 (fahrenheit) from time to time. The wind chills are the real hoot. Hydraulics and steering don't work real well when you're talking -50 with the wind chill.

 

[Radrock]

Thanks for getting back to me. If the reallignment is more often then not when you get in or out, I can live with that. I seen how long it can take. I guess we get a little colder here, we see -40 (fahrenheit) from time to time. The wind chills are the real hoot. Hydraulics and steering don't work real well when you're talking -50 with the wind chill.

Yeah they get a little slow for awhile haha. With the newer oils and synthetic it is much better than it used to be with just a straight weight oil. That brings me to another subject. The M is very fussy about not wanting to move at all until it goes through a warm up period. (or at least mine was). The H series would still move along at a slow RPM while working the Hydraulics to warm it up. The M will not even move until it gets to a certain temperature. I would sure think this could create a lot of trouble for you fellows up in that cold country. Cat may have different settings for up there too. You just never know with all of this computerized stuff. Of course it would be very important to use the proper oil in cold environment.

 

[Fatgraderman]

Yeah they get a little slow for awhile haha. With the newer oils and synthetic it is much better than it used to be with just a straight weight oil. That brings me to another subject. The M is very fussy about not wanting to move at all until it goes through a warm up period. (or at least mine was). The H series would still move along at a slow RPM while working the Hydraulics to warm it up. The M will not even move until it gets to a certain temperature. I would sure think this could create a lot of trouble for you fellows up in that cold country. Cat may have different settings for up there too. You just never know with all of this computerized stuff. Of course it would be very important to use the proper oil in cold environment.

The only guy I know well that ran one, just told me his 14m was the exact same way. Kinda felt that it was machine that either should be double shifted in the winter or run inside if at all possible. Sounds like in the most severe cold, trying to get things moving could be a while.

 

[CatGrader]

M's are for sooks ( @#$@ ) H's n G's are boys machines. E's are mens machines.

 

[cuttin edge]

I ran a 1972 14E for a while. It had a 13 foot board on it.

M's are for sooks ( @#$@ ) H's n G's are boys machines. E's are mens machines.

 

[Nige]

M's are for sooks ( @#$@ ) H's n G's are boys machines. E's are mens machines.

And the dinosaurs went extinct for a reason .........

 

[Fatgraderman]

And the dinosaurs went extinct for a reason .........

I thought it was because they had a hard time texting with those massive claws and misspelled everything. Do you mean they didn't want to run those either when the clutches under the pedestal got worn and the levers started jumping around?

 

[Radrock]

I guess I am getting closer to extinct as well. haha. I can't count the number of graders I have operated in my life. Mostly Cat & John Deere. The first old cat that you had to start with pony motor on the side standing by the tantems. Lots of hours on the old 99E's, About every one of Cat blades except the 24M. Sure wish I could have. I retired this year and union rules say I can not operate heavy machinery for anybody but another union company an very limited at that. I guess I'll just hang my hat up permanently. I sure will miss it though. Best of luck to all you young grader operators.

 

[Randy Krieg]

Thanks for getting back to me. If the reallignment is more often then not when you get in or out, I can live with that. I seen how long it can take. I guess we get a little colder here, we see -40 (fahrenheit) from time to time. The wind chills are the real hoot. Hydraulics and steering don't work real well when you're talking -50 with the wind chill.

There is a parking brake override feature on the M’s which helps you realign the steering control. The steering is deactivated when the parking brake is engaged and your body leaves the seat. If the occupant light is on in the dashboard the steering should be off. If the control is not aligned with the front tires and you turn the parking brake switch to the off position you get a Level 2 Warning (flashing light and scripted warning “steering not aligned”). At that point simply push in the inching clutch pedal fully, select forward or reverse then let the inching clutch out, as the machine moves and reaches 1.5 mph the front tires will automatically move themselves to realign with the steering lever. You will get a Level 3 Alarm as soon as you select forward or reverse, the alarm will stop as soon as the front tires realign themselves at 1.5 mph. Remember the pedal has to be full depressed before you select a direction or the override feature will not activate. Even if the front tires are steered fully to the right and the lever is all the way left they will realign automatically if you do the steps properly; seatbelt fasten, body in seat, park brake switch in off position, inching clutch pedal fully depressed, etc. etc. The procedure is listed in the OM&M. Use caution doing it this way the first time!
In regards to the oil; on our M Series in Alaska we ran Mobil Delvac 0W/20 Synthetic in everything (transmission, hydraulics, tandem cases, & front spindles) except the engine (Delo 400). It’s amazing oil in extremely cold weather. The only problem we had with the Mobil Delvac synthetic; in the summer time if you were roading the machine at high speed (7th & 8th gear) you will get some oil spillage out of the tandem breathers since the oil is very thin.
Best Regards, Randy

 

[Fatgraderman]

Thanks for the clarification on that Randy. I'll probably have to reread it a couple of times, but sounds like we are going to try and demo an M this fall soon as there's a bit of snow.

 

[Rajbir Lorriet]

Right @Fatgraderman I'll agree with you. I'll read it too.

 

[spanner]

I have done that steering thing a couple of times by accident .Didn't realise it was an actual procedure. I have around 3000 hrs on 12m now and had to run a 12h yesterday while mine was in for service. Man I was all over the place. I really like that m .