Great...(cue eye roll) another oil thread

[Shimmy1]

2016 Komatsu WA320-7 A35441.

Book says to use EO10W-30-DH engine oil for the hydraulics. The hydraulics are the drive pump and motor, and tool functions. The standard for this oil is JASO DH-1 or API CI-4. I plan on using this oil, but I am still going to ask the question, is the CNH Unitek 10W-40 close to this oil? How about CNH HyTran Ultraction? I've been told that HyTran is about a 10W-30 viscosity.

The Komatsu oil is reasonable, but I can't help being irritated that I am going to have to keep another oil around. If they would spec this 10-30 for use in the engine, that would make sense, but they want 15W-40-LA for this new of an engine.

 

[Nige]

Book says to use EO10W-30-DH engine oil for the hydraulics.

That’s something straight out of the “one size fits all” mantra from the 1970’s. First call today would be an SAE10W hydraulic oil, similar to what’s specced for the hydraulic system in your D6N.

The hydraulics are the drive pump and motor, and tool functions.

Not sure I understand that. Does it have a pump drive box lubricated separately to the main system.? Or is it hydrostatic.? If so either an SAE10W or multigrade TO-4 would work just as well.

Edited to add - the oil requirement can’t be that demanding if all they are specifying is a 10W/30 engine oil that complies with an API spec that was superseded almost 20 years ago.

 

[IceHole]

Id use something like Torq Force 10 or 5w30

 

[Shimmy1]

Not sure I understand that. Does it have a pump drive box lubricated separately to the main system.?

Yes, kind of. The engine drives a hydrostatic pump, which runs a hydrostatic motor, which is connected to a transmission/transfer case to provide drive function for the loader. That compartment uses TDTO 10.

Or is it hydrostatic.? If so either an SAE10W or multigrade TO-4 would work just as well.

Like I said above, the engine runs pumps and motors for drive and hydraulic control. Normally for something like this, I'd assume it would take AW46. My dealer guy says to stick with the 10W-30.

 

[Nige]

Yes, kind of. The engine drives a hydrostatic pump, which runs a hydrostatic motor, which is connected to a transmission/transfer case to provide drive function for the loader. That compartment uses TDTO 10.

But effectively what you are asking about is the oil for a hydrostatic system - so why the **** would it take an engine oil, despite what the book says.?

TBH if you are proposing to use a 10W TDTO (TO-4) in the transmission/transfer case I'd run the same oil in the hystat system. Here it is shown in the red rectangle in the illustration below.

My dealer guy says to stick with the 10W-30.

My thought would be that your dealer guy doesn't know any better and so he sticks with what the book says.

As mentioned above you also have the option to use a multigrade TO-4 in both compartments.

 

[Shimmy1]

But effectively what you are asking about is the oil for a hydrostatic system - so why the **** would it take an engine oil, despite what the book says.?

I completely agree, but I generally don't question a manufacturer's suggested recommendation.

TBH if you are proposing to use a 10W TDTO (TO-4) in the transmission/transfer case I'd run the same oil in the hystat system. Here it is shown in the red rectangle in the illustration below.

My thought would be that your dealer guy doesn't know any better and so he sticks with what the book says.

As mentioned above you also have the option to use a multigrade TO-4 in both compartments.

So, moral of this story is use either the 10W-30 engine oil (that I don't currently use in anything else) or, a TDTO 10 which, until now, I don't run in anything either. If my current CNH Unitek 10W-40 would be acceptable, I'd certainly run that.

I'll be completely honest, if Komatsu would tell me that the TDTO 10 would be perfectly fine in the hydraulics, I'd have no problem running it.

What I can't understand, is why isn't a standard HYDO 10 (or whatever Caterpillar runs in their skid loaders) acceptable in this system?

 

[Nige]

What I can't understand, is why isn't a standard HYDO 10 (or whatever Caterpillar runs in their skid loaders) acceptable in this system?

It certainly is acceptable in that system. In fact a straight hydraulic oil is what is specified for the hystat systems in Cat tracked loaders as well.

The only reason I suggested SAE10W TDTO/TO-4 is because it was required in the transfer case which will have somewhat more stringent oil requirements. I’m guessing because it has friction materials in it somewhere. TBH you could use a 10W TO-4 anywhere that you currently use hydraulic oil. That’s what we did so that it was one oil less on the lube truck.

 

[Shimmy1]

I'm not doubting your opinion at all Nige, but I can't help wondering.

Komatsu is selling a quarter-million dollar machine. Every other manufacturer runs hydraulic oil in their hystats except for a couple of skid loader OEMs? Komatsu already specs a TO 10 for the transfer case, why in the frick would they not simplify things and run it in the hydraulics? Could it be due to heat or breakdown because of change interval? In my mind, a 10W-30 engine oil might tolerate the demanding conditions that the drive is going to see in this case better than straight 10 wt drive oil or 10W hydraulic.

You did mention a multi-grade TDTO.....
I know Caterpillar has one of them now because I got in a pissing match over on Agtalk over fluids for a Cat backhoe. The company this guy works for uses ONE fluid for ALL machines....all compartments except for engine. Caterpillar TDTO-TMS.

I am just asking questions of guys smarter than me. Currently, I run TDTO 30 and 50 in my tractors, and HYDO 10 in the hydraulics. If, and I mean if I could see benefits from running this -TMS in my Challenger hydraulics, and if it would be fine for these loaders, AND if Komatsu wouldn't poop their pants if I put it in my excavator where I currently run HO56, maybe this would be a viable option?