Gradall 534D-10 crank no start

[Mobilewrench]

Serial number 0160012012
Deere 4045 engine

This machine was in my yard a few months ago for a lot of cylinder work. And they also mentioned some hard start issues. I took care of the cylinders. Dug into the hard start, seemed to be a losing prime problem.
Anytime a machine with this engine hits my yard with this problem I always check the same things. The umbrella seals in the fuel lines, and the lift pump (I think that is the only check valve in the fuel delivery system). So I replaced the umbrella seals and they were pretty degraded. Checked the lift pump and it seemed pretty weak. No problem, I always have one on the truck. Replaced it and let it sit overnight. The next day it fired right up. So I had them come get it.

Last week they called and said they couldn't get it started.

Sorry, I have to deal with a phone call. I will be back with more info soon.

 

[B&B]

Serial number 0160012012
Deere 4045 engine

This machine was in my yard a few months ago for a lot of cylinder work. And they also mentioned some hard start issues. I took care of the cylinders. Dug into the hard start, seemed to be a losing prime problem.
Anytime a machine with this engine hits my yard with this problem I always check the same things. The umbrella seals in the fuel lines, and the lift pump (I think that is the only check valve in the fuel delivery system). So I replaced the umbrella seals and they were pretty degraded. Checked the lift pump and it seemed pretty weak. No problem, I always have one on the truck. Replaced it and let it sit overnight. The next day it fired right up. So I had them come get it.

Last week they called and said they couldn't get it started.

Sorry, I have to deal with a phone call. I will be back with more info soon.

On 2 deere engines I had issues getting the water drain on the fuel filter to seal 100%. Each time would have no visible leaks and they would be airbound if sat for a couple days until I cranked both drains as tight as they'd go before breaking

 

[AresTechs]

Since the umbrella seals and lift pump were already the known failure points and got replaced, and it fired right up after sitting overnight only to fail again, this points to a secondary air-ingress path you haven't hit yet, not a repeat of the same failure.

Most likely: the fuel filter water-drain valve not sealing. A reply on your own thread flagged this exact pattern on other Deere 4045 machines: on 2 deere engines the water drain on the fuel filter wouldn't seal 100%, showing no visible leaks but going airbound if sat for a couple days until the drains were cranked tight before breaking. Pull both filter housings, check the drain valves at the base, and torque them down hard (don't just snug them).

Second, the suction side upstream of everything you touched: cracked plastic tank pickup tube or dry-rotted rubber line from tank to first filter. Field reports on this engine describe the same "starts, sits, won't restart" cycle traced to dry rotted fuel lines from the tank to the filters that deteriorate and allow fuel to drain back, and separately to a plastic pickup tube in the tank cracking, sucking air along with the fuel.

Third, don't rule out electrical this time. A closely related 544D-10 with an intermittent crank-no-start traced to an inline glass fuse holder in the harness near the ECU that rattles apart and causes a no fuel/no start, later swapped to a spade-type holder. If fuel checks come back clean, wiggle-test that holder and check for voltage at the shutoff solenoid during crank.

Check sequence: crack a filter drain and retighten by hand-tight-plus-quarter-turn, pressure-test the low side with a hand primer while watching for bubbles at each fitting, then visually inspect the tank pickup line. If all that's clean, move to the fuse holder and solenoid wiring.

 

[Diesel Dave]

I belief that’s a Stanadyne DE10 injection pump. Any check engine light ?
You have an engine serial # ?

 

[Mobilewrench]

Thanks for the replies, where was i?

So they said they couldn't get it started. So I went to their job site put cables on the battery, primed it up and started it. Left it running for them to let the battery recharge.

They were still having trouble so they brought it to my yard. I got to start digging into it yesterday. I found the fuel filter was empty so I checked the water drain and it was a tiny bit loose, so I torqued on it a little because I know that leak especially with aftermarket filters (napa). Used air to fill up the filter and then hit the primer pump to do the rest. It still wouldn't start. So I cracked the injectors and tried again.

Got fuel to the injectors, still no start. I have already checked the fuse and connectors between the battery and ecu, so I figured I would try a judicious spray of ether. Fired right up. I remember reading, a long time ago, about a glass fuse near the L-12 (ecu). But have never found one on this generation of Gradall. The fuse is always right next to the positive battery terminal and is a mini spade 10A.

So then I wandered away for a few minutes to let the machine charge the battery and to do some telephoning, order parts, see if any parts that I am waiting on have shown up, ask "why not?", ask "then when?" . You know, the usual care and feeding of dealership parts persons.

Went back and shut it off, then smoked a cigarette (that is my personal stopwatch) and started it back up. No problem. Since there was a lot of cranking before, I decided that I should let it run for a bit and that I wanted more cigarettes. So I left it running and went to get some. When I got back I was pretty surprised to find that it wasn't still running. The key was still in run, so nobody wandered into my yard and thought, "that shouldn't be running unattended. I will take care of it for Ken"

So, I turned the key off and smoked another cigarette (timer). And restarted it. This time I had a flashing check engine light. And the a solid one. Stepped back and stared at it angrily, started a timer and asked the machine why it was not bending to my will. Twenty minutes later it shut itself off again.

At this point I am starting to realize that there is something else going on than just a losing prime problem.

Had to use ether a second time to get it started. And that is too many times in my opinion. Started another timer (this repair is going to give me cancer) and then went over to the ecu fuse to manipulate the wires and coincidence or not it shut right off.

The wire between the battery and ecu looked suspicious, so I checked continuity from the battery to the ecu. It was good. Then load checked it. No problem.


Now it will not start at all.


It seems to me that I used to know how to get blink check engine light codes out of these machines. I have forgotten how and apparently so has the internet.

Two days later now and it is still fully primed.

If the original complaint was machine shuts off on a Gradall with a Deere 4045, I would check the connections and then wiring to ecu. After that it is time to test the ecu. Well, I don't test them really, I just put a known good one in and see if the problem goes away. My yard Gradall is out on a job so I have to wait until Saturday to snag its ecu. I used to have one sitting on the truck, but I think I had to install it on a machine and never got my hands on another one.

So that's where I am at right now, unless anybody has any other ideas.

 

[Mobilewrench]

I would first separate a loss-of-prime problem from a fuel shutoff or control problem before replacing more parts.

1. Fill the supply side and, if practical, add a short clear section at the pump inlet. Bubbles or an empty line after sitting point to an air leak upstream. Check the tank pickup, hose connections, filter head seals, and return plumbing.
2. Confirm the electric fuel shutoff has power in RUN and stays energized while cranking. If power drops out, the pump may have fuel but still be shut off.
3. Check cranking speed and battery voltage under load. A 4045 that cranks slowly can look like a fuel problem, especially when cold.

Keep hands and skin away from injector lines while cranking. Do not loosen high-pressure lines. When it failed, did it crank normally, and was the supply line empty?

I used ****************************** to cross-check the likely causes. Its equipment repair search and custom AI are handy when you enter the exact model and symptom.

I thought the fuel shutoff was internal on the pump on these engines. How would I go about testing it?

 

[Mobilewrench]

I belief that’s a Stanadyne DE10 injection pump. Any check engine light ?
You have an engine serial # ?

Are you asking for the serial number of the pump?

 

[Diesel Dave]

Are you asking for the serial number of the pump?

No , serial # of the engine