Glider kits

[Randy88]

Been looking into this somewhat lately before they take away the option, not really what I had in mind though, was thinking more along the line of putting a completely mechanical engine into a new or newer truck, doesn't sound like that's an option with a glider kit though, they want to do the early electronic engines into a new chassis.

Anyone gutted a newer truck or even one with an electronic engine and put a 855 cummins mechanical into one and if so, how did you do it and how does it work?

Just toying around with the idea a little, not sure I want to start over with a complete restoration on say a 359 pete and go from there, would like a newer 379 or a KW and retrofit with a completely mechanical 855 and a new 13 or 18 speed behind it, triple axle and I'm not into the chrome at all, its not my thing, just a flat out workhorse that's simple and effective.

Have also been toying around with an automatic of some sort in a heavy haul truck, seen a few with 16 speed automatics, anyone had one before, used one or been around one, worth looking into or not??

 

[DoyleX]

The harness to make the dash work is the biggest part. This guy knows how [URL="http://www.mawkindustries.com/[/URL]
Another major problem is when the feds make sure all of the gliders are up to the emission standards for that year of manufacture. Then what ya gonna do?

Personally I find cream puffs from out west, go through em and make some bucks. If you have big coins to spend I wouldn't hesitate a minute ordering up a rolling glider and slipping in a red top N14 or 6NZ or 12.7 detroit.

 

[Randy88]

I was under the impression the emissions were based off the ENGINE year of manufacture, not the chassis, but I haven't investigated it enough to know for sure. I was still thinking about putting a mechanical engine in a chassis at least 20 plus years newer, not a brand new truck per say, but just asking questions just the same.

 

[ohiofleet]

ya n14 all the way I would not mess with a mechanical at all

 

[Truck Shop]

Where I work we have 20 over the road gliders. All are Freightliner Coronado's powered by 550 hp- 1850 torque S60-Detroits. 2004 DDEC4 engines. Very good
power plant. Very strong jakes. The gliders came with engine and rear suspension. We bought Weller RTLO18913A's and used Eaton 404's. We run drop axles
so the frames are 7/16" thick rail. Most right now are in the 425K mile range and they have been really pretty good trucks.

A grain company we do outside repair for also bought 3 gliders. SD version Coronado's with same spec's only there day cabs. I used to be a cat, cummins only
person. But I have to say the S60 at 550 is a very good engine. Our GVW is 99'000 lbs and we run mountain passes constantly. Our trucks get run pretty hard.
For the money these gilders have performed real well.

And we also are running 12 new Cascadia models with 515 hp DD15's. Some with 13spd's and the DD12 automatics so far they have been good. And the fuel
mileage is averaged at 5.7 at 99'000 lbs. That's good fuel economy for operating in the northwest.

Truck Shop

 

[farmerlund]

Glad you started this thread Randy, I have been thinking of the same thing for a while. I have thought of finding a low mile 15year old kw or pete. In the long run it would be worth it to me to pay a little more for a nice one. I would like to learn more about glider kits also.

Steve

 

[Shimmy1]

Mechanical engines are bulletproof, but it's pretty hard to beat a 430/460/525 red top. Basically the same engine as a mechanical 855 except for injectors and you get cruise. Not that it's that important for driving but it nice to tap the cruise to idle it up. It's not hard to sort out the electrical either.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I can't speak for gliders but I do like automatics. I have not heard much good about the automated manuals that I think the 16 speed you might be referring to is though.

Just get a regular 4000 series Allison, 6 speeds is all it needs to get the job done, unless you think you absolutely need the 7th granny low. Also if you go that route you can get a granny low reverse.

I like to say that automatics save on repairs, no more bent/worn forks, clutches to adjust or replace, gears ground down by mistaken shifts, synchronizers to wear out, drive shafts twisted off, and shifts uphill are possible in places a manual can't do it.

But I don't know what you are doing with the truck.

 

[kshansen]

The only things I can think of is what are the rules on licencing for over the road use a truck in your state? Would this truck be considered a "new"truck and need to meet current standards. Or would it be considered a salvage and only need to meet the standards for the truck the components came from and how do you prove that?

 

[Randy88]

I plan on using it for a lowboy tractor and all around use semi, from end dump, grain hopper, belly dump you name it we pretty much do it now, the most we gross out at is about 130,000 or so, but most times we're below 100,000 lbs. Just never been in or around an automatic before in a semi. I don't put many miles on a semi each year, but we're using it constantly it seems.

I do like the 13 speeds myself, but there are times it would be nice not to have do the shifting anymore and the constant clutch adjusting it seems we do, so yes sort of looking at the less maintenance end I guess you could say.

Yes I was looking at the 16 speed manual shift automatics to start with, haven't heard much good to be said for them, but again never driven or been around one personally so that didn't last long for my search, now its more towards the Alison's. I know quite a few that use and own them in the mid range trucks and love them, but nobody seems to know anything about those in the larger semi tractors.

Cruise isn't a big deal to me, I seldom ever have a long haul, where its straight and long enough to worry about, I'm more towards the hills and gravel type operation, short runs, always turning type driving. I have one semi now with cruise, don't think I've used it more than a hand full of times in the last 10 years and that didn't amount to a few hours of use total.

The more I look at trucks, the more I'm convinced most anything for sale is either overpriced or worn out beyond repair, then to get what I want on a truck, the way I'm seeing it, is I might as well buy a chassis and cab I'd like to own for the next 20 years and start over from the ground up, put in the engine and transmission, rear ends, front axle and build what I'm wanting. But what I'm wanting is a cummins 855 mechanical and most of those chassis are already 30 plus years old, rusted/rotted out cabs and it goes downhill from there. I was thinking about using a cab and chassis say 10 years old and then put on and in what I'd like and need for my operation, which brought about the idea of a glider kit, not a whole lot different than ordering a truck to spec for what I'm wanting, was just wondering if anyone had done it, was it worth it, or just buy a used one somewhat setup and finish it up and run that.

I'm not ruling out anything, just hashing over ideas and so I asked here, what others have done to get a triple axle truck, sliding fifth wheel, heavy front axle, heavy rears, slightly longer wheel base than a twin screw, heavy clutch or automatic, gearing that works for me instead of over the road haulers, heavy driveline, single line and twin line wet kits, chain racks, day cab and the list goes on and on

 

[DoyleX]

Randy your right everything that is decent is overpriced the other half is clapped out. The way you are talking it sounds like you know what you need and want.

Why not find a mixer truck with a L10 or M11. Dump the motor and trans out and slide in your 855 and rtoo14613 or put a skirt on with your auto. I did this with my T800 dump some years back. It was basically a free swap once I sold the L10. Find a parts truck for the correct motor mounts and radiator plumbing. The harness is the same. PS pump was different.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Randy

Look in CA for a truck. Mixers would be a good choice. There are many in good shape selling cheap due to CARB. No rust, strong frame, and put in the running gear you want.

You can get a good used one here for the price of a rusted, clapped out truck back east.

 

[Shimmy1]

put a skirt on with your auto

:falldownlaugh

 

[RonG]

Mixers are getting rare these days in this area as the front discharge are taking over,I can't remember the last time I saw an conventional backup mixer on the road.Ron G

 

[Birken Vogt]

Out here in rural California conventional mixers are all that you ever see. They may have the big ones in the city but I don't see many of them.

The drivers are just expected to get the small ones into some crazy places and they really do, too. They just dispatch more of them if it is a big job.

 

[RonG]

All it takes is one company to convert to the front discharge and there goes the neighborhood.The ready mix suppliers band together and outlaw the purchase of the new technology and as long as noone backs out you won't see them.
I drove the backup mixers for over 10 years and we were the last holdouts in this area until we found 5 used Advance mixers to start us out and we never looked back.There is really no comparison to the old mixers,from a drivers point of view or the form contractors perspective.You only need one man to pour footings and the truck can go where the backup trucks cannot even dream of.All you need is the potential promise of getting a front discharge on your job site,especially once you have a taste of what they can do and you have a reason to drop the dime at a provider that has them in their fleet.Ron G

 

[Randy88]

Ron could you elaborate more on why the front discharge is so much better, I get the visibility would be far better and also the control from the cab, but how could it get around so much better, most front discharge mixers are so much larger and longer, how does that translate into getting around better?

Are they balanced better, more weight, more traction, or what is it? As they say educate us, inquiring minds would like to know, they are not at all popular in my area.

 

[nowing75]

All they have around Indianapolis are front discharge. I can't see why anyone would want the rear discharge unless your just dumping into a pump.

 

[87silvert]

Front discharge mixers may be longer but not by much and I bet the wheelbase is quite a bit shorter. Visibility of the entire process (other than leaving) is obviously much better with a front discharge. Also, with some weight off the truck to make a little less top heavy you can really get the front tires over the bank just a bit for reach. The weight on the rear wheels keeps you fairly stable. I don't think I would get nearly as close/over the bank with the rear wheels. Also, by going forward into the job you can get a little more 'run' at it if the ground is wet or steep. I would say the advantage is huge on residential work and slight on commercial work.

 

[87silvert]

On glider kits, I think they are a great idea. I looked into it last year at this time to build a new 389 Pete with a 3406E or N14. There are a lot of advantages, non emission engine being the most obvious, but also Federal excise tax advantages too. You need to use two major components out of a donor truck to get the credit you need, then your emissions is by the model year of that engine. The only reason I did not go that route is Pete had a 5 month wait at the time and then I still had to build it. That would mean it would put the project in our busy season and it would not have been utilized at all in 2015.