Genie Z80/60 Drive Problems

[OFF]

The company has a Genie Z80/60 that's not my friend. The drive has always been really slow and yet everything is functioning normally. We've been through the programing countless times and all the function speeds are set to 100%. Only difference I can see is that this machine has the "floation tire" option, (larger size tires & wheels than other Z80/60's). Any thoughts on why larger tires would slow this machine down? Anybody faced something similar? :beatsme

Problem #2 with this lovely machine.......the pins & bushings where the axles oscillate aren't standing up. Is it just this machine or do all Z80/60's have problems in that area? :beatsme

 

[willie59]

Are you certain the hi speed drive solenoid is changing motors to hi speed mode? What about the drive pump, have you made sure the horespower limiter board is fully stroking the pump servo? Not sure what you mean about the pins/bushings at the oscilating axle. What is the machine serial #, electrical and hyd schematic #'s that are printed on the ID plate?

 

[OFF]

Are you certain the hi speed drive solenoid is changing motors to hi speed mode? What about the drive pump, have you made sure the horespower limiter board is fully stroking the pump servo? Not sure what you mean about the pins/bushings at the oscilating axle. What is the machine serial #, electrical and hyd schematic #'s that are printed on the ID plate?

Z80-05-565
Electric Schematic ES0188
couldn't find hyd. schematic listed anywhere. :beatsme

Yes, it's shifting fully into high speed. The manual says it should cover 40ft in 8.7 to 9.3 seconds with RT tires, and cover that same 40ft in 13.6 to 14.5 seconds with the high flotation tires. This one is about 15.0 to 15.5 seconds. Just a little slow. We have another Z80/60 and it's easily twice as fast but it's on normal RT tires.
Tire size on the slow one is 445/50D710, tire size on the faster one is 18/625. Difference in diameter is about 5".
I guess I need to get both machines in the shop at the same time and swap the wheels......like I'll ever get that opertunity.

What I meant by "pins & bushings" this machine is making creaking/snapping noises from the oscillating axle pivot pin bushings.

 

[willie59]

Wow, you got a good one there, haven't worked on one of those yet. I've been looking over the parts book, I don't recognise that drive pump, not sure how it's controlled. Looks like the joysticks are controlled by a circuit board. Is that something like the OEM optimiser system? Can't help you much with your machine, just know nothing about it. I just can't help but think you drive pump isn't being stroked fully for hi drive. Just don't know how the machine controls the pump.

 

[OFF]

Wow, you got a good one there, haven't worked on one of those yet. I've been looking over the parts book, I don't recognise that drive pump, not sure how it's controlled. Looks like the joysticks are controlled by a circuit board. Is that something like the OEM optimiser system? Can't help you much with your machine, just know nothing about it. I just can't help but think you drive pump isn't being stroked fully for hi drive. Just don't know how the machine controls the pump.

You're right, the pump system sort of reminds me of a 40HA and it "looks" really under-sized for an 80. We've been buying nothing but Genie since the early 90's and had really good luck with them. But this machine has been an absolute lemon right from the day it was delivered.

 

[willie59]

Hey OFF, does the drive pump have a control servo that has a small manual lever on it so you can stroke the pump by moving the manual lever?

 

[FJ44]

Hello OFF,
The pump in question is a Sauer M46 pump. It is the pump Genie and JLG are using on most of their boom lifts with the exception of the Z45, S60, Z135.
The Z80 uses the ALC1000 control system. This control system take inputs from the hall effect joysticks base off of a 5 volt reference and interprets that input to make the machine function.
When you turn the system on what software version shows up on the LCD screen at the base control box?
If the machine has a deisel engine the aluminum rod that is used on the high throttle system does wear and the rpm will drop. If the high rpm is lower by even a couple hundred rpm that could be enough to decrease the speed by the amount you have listed. The machine will drive at high and low idle but if the high rpm drops too low you you can loose drive as the system is n ot designed to operate at a mid range.
If you want to check the rpm to compare it against the tag on the fan shroud it can be done from the base controls.
Start the engine from the ground controls.
With the engine running press the high rpm button just below the LCD display.
With the engine running at high rpm press the button that looks like the enter button on you keyboard, an arrow the points down and to the left.
Continue to press the enter button until the rpm is displayed, there will be a picture of a rotating piston on the LCD when the rpm is displayed.
Let me know how this works out and we can go from there.

 

[FJ44]

Hey OFF, does the drive pump have a control servo that has a small manual lever on it so you can stroke the pump by moving the manual lever?

ATCO,
Yes the drive pump would have the actuator on the side of the EDC, at least when it was new it would have (the get broken off all the time for some bizzard reason).

 

[willie59]

Hello OFF,
The pump in question is a Sauer M46 pump. It is the pump Genie and JLG are using on most of their boom lifts with the exception of the Z45, S60, Z135.
The Z80 uses the ALC1000 control system. This control system take inputs from the hall effect joysticks base off of a 5 volt reference and interprets that input to make the machine function.
When you turn the system on what software version shows up on the LCD screen at the base control box?
If the machine has a deisel engine the aluminum rod that is used on the high throttle system does wear and the rpm will drop. If the high rpm is lower by even a couple hundred rpm that could be enough to decrease the speed by the amount you have listed. The machine will drive at high and low idle but if the high rpm drops too low you you can loose drive as the system is n ot designed to operate at a mid range.
If you want to check the rpm to compare it against the tag on the fan shroud it can be done from the base controls.
Start the engine from the ground controls.
With the engine running press the high rpm button just below the LCD display.
With the engine running at high rpm press the button that looks like the enter button on you keyboard, an arrow the points down and to the left.
Continue to press the enter button until the rpm is displayed, there will be a picture of a rotating piston on the LCD when the rpm is displayed.
Let me know how this works out and we can go from there.

Hey, that's some great info FJ44.

BTW...welcome to the forum. :usa

 

[OFF]

Hello OFF,
The pump in question is a Sauer M46 pump. It is the pump Genie and JLG are using on most of their boom lifts with the exception of the Z45, S60, Z135.
The Z80 uses the ALC1000 control system. This control system take inputs from the hall effect joysticks base off of a 5 volt reference and interprets that input to make the machine function.
When you turn the system on what software version shows up on the LCD screen at the base control box?
If the machine has a deisel engine the aluminum rod that is used on the high throttle system does wear and the rpm will drop. If the high rpm is lower by even a couple hundred rpm that could be enough to decrease the speed by the amount you have listed. The machine will drive at high and low idle but if the high rpm drops too low you you can loose drive as the system is n ot designed to operate at a mid range.
If you want to check the rpm to compare it against the tag on the fan shroud it can be done from the base controls.
Start the engine from the ground controls.
With the engine running press the high rpm button just below the LCD display.
With the engine running at high rpm press the button that looks like the enter button on you keyboard, an arrow the points down and to the left.
Continue to press the enter button until the rpm is displayed, there will be a picture of a rotating piston on the LCD when the rpm is displayed.
Let me know how this works out and we can go from there.

Welcome to the forum FG44
Sounds like you know your Genie's well.

You were right on the money with that aluminum bar they used for throttle linkage on those Z80/60's with the Perkins. That was first thing to go when I checked the high RPM a while back. Talk about a non-professional looking installation. Spec in the manual is 2300 RPM, this one was running 2150. I bumped it up to 2450 last week and it made enough of a difference that so far the guys are happy with it. It's about 12 seconds for 40ft feet now.
Software is version 1.03

 

[FJ44]

Welcome to the forum FG44
Sounds like you know your Genie's well.

You were right on the money with that aluminum bar they used for throttle linkage on those Z80/60's with the Perkins. That was first thing to go when I checked the high RPM a while back. Talk about a non-professional looking installation. Spec in the manual is 2300 RPM, this one was running 2150. I bumped it up to 2450 last week and it made enough of a difference that so far the guys are happy with it. It's about 12 seconds for 40ft feet now.
Software is version 1.03

Good to here the rpm helped. Your in Alberta, where at? The latest software for the Z80 is version 1.05 it makes a lot of little improvements over 1.04. Since you are running 1.03 switching to 1.05 would make it seem like it was a totally different ie new machine.

 

[OFF]

Good to here the rpm helped. Your in Alberta, where at? The latest software for the Z80 is version 1.05 it makes a lot of little improvements over 1.04. Since you are running 1.03 switching to 1.05 would make it seem like it was a totally different ie new machine.

I'm in Fort Saskatchewan, the heavy industrial area just outside of Edmonton.

Thanks for the tip on the software update. Maybe it will fix some of the other issues I have with this machine. This lift is so very close to going into the paint shop and coming out painted lemon yellow.
My next biggest beef on this thing is the platform leveling at cold temperatures. When booming up or down you have to stop and wait for the platform level to catch up or the platform goes too far off level, the machine shuts down and someone on the ground has to recover it. We won't even talk about the steering system on these machines. :Banghead

 

[FJ44]

The steering on the Z80, Z135, S100, S105, S120, S125 are all a master slave system.
The left front wheel is the master wheel and all others wheels response as a result of the report of the position of that wheel via the use of steer sensors.
When Version 1.04 was release it made a big difference if the steer responsiveness. If you have the hydraulic schematics available for the older and newer machine you may see a further difference as the flow control valves where changed in the steer circuit to ad in responsiveness.
If you are not a Genie dealer I would recommend you contact one and request the Version 1.05 software be installed. between the 1.03 and 1.05 you will notice better steering and dramatically improved platform leveling response. If you are a dealer you could contact you local service rep for advice on how you load the newest software in to the machine. It has been my experience that setting the threshold values for all of the function will make a big improvement but nothing compares to the new software.
This machine must have been imported to Western Canada used right? I was told the Local Genie Rep had upgraded all of the machines that were sold into western Canada to Version 1.04 back a few years ago. Not as a warranty or service bulletin but as a curtesy before economy went south and all the budget cuts.

 

[excavator]

For your information, all Genie service and parts manuals are available on their web site. Free of charge.

 

[OFF]

This machine must have been imported to Western Canada used right? I was told the Local Genie Rep had upgraded all of the machines that were sold into western Canada to Version 1.04 back a few years ago. Not as a warranty or service bulletin but as a curtesy before economy went south and all the budget cuts.

Correct again. Long story. I work for a large "global" company. We had the budget for and were dealing on a new S80 from our local Genie dealer. Put the order into our purchasing department and some pin-head bean counter in the states someplace thought he could save the company some money. We ended up with a used Z80/60 from some rental company in Florida being trucked all the way up here and dumped off. First thing we did was have our dealer's best tech out to look it over. He shrugged and walked away.
Next we shipped it onto them, they kept it a week, charged some money but I don't think they touched it. They're obviously pissed at us over the whole deal. Since then I've given up on getting any dealer support on this machine.

Now that I know there is a software upgrade, I will get it installed. Sounds like it will cure all my headaches.
Thank you very much for the info.
:notworthy

 

[FJ44]

OFF,
Did you ever get this sorted out?
Thanks,

 

[OFF]

OFF,
Did you ever get this sorted out?
Thanks,

The software upgrade hasn't been done yet

The machine has been so busy I haven't been able to get it anywhere near the shop since it went out in April. I'll get it back here soon one way or another. I still have the name & contact info for that dealer tech so when I do get the machine I'll arrange for him to come out.

I think the guys are finally learning to watch the level of the basket now so they aren't getting locked out twice a day anymore. It been a good summer for that machine.

 

[BGG]

Bgg

Sorry to intterupt.Not getting much help from genie tech support. Just replace the board is what they say. Z60, all joystick controls go dead, toggles are still active. No codes. Recalibrated all three joysticks. All is good for 1-4 hours. No codes coming up on the board. Then the same. Checked the ground on the box, it,s good. It could be the board. Or is there some sort of different power/ ground supply to JUST the joysticks?????

 

[FJ44]

Bgg, Where are you working at? How old is your unit? What is the serial number? Did you have the problem before you replaced the board? This is a known problem on newer units and the board is not the real problem, it is software. They created a new ALC500 board when they released the new S60, it has some issues. They are supposed to have released the new board/software by the end of August. When did you replace the board on yours? Where did you get the parts from?
Thank you,

 

[BGG]

I'm in alberta, not sure of the age, but the serial #4950. Never replaced the board. Only problem i,ve had is the bleed valve /pilot. Can I update this ?