Genie z-60/34 ... fwd drive only after turret rebuild.

[raistlin]

Checked out all ground and ariel systems; all systems check out except Drive system.
Problem: When forward drive engaged, booms moves and turns.
When reverse drive is engaged fluid comes out of drive motor end seals (assuming from over pressure relief).
When controls are released fluid still leaks slowly- when engine is shutoff fluid stops.
*Swapped solenoid drive heads and leads; no change.
*Checked hyd shuttle valve and it was clean.
*Checked all three drive manifold solenoid valves and they were clean/ solenoids all had correct polarity and all 3 had similar resistance.

Does anyone have a hydraulic schematic for the 2wd Drive manifold?

 

[willie59]

You can download parts/service manuals, which have schematics, at Genie website.

http://genielift.com/en/

 

[raistlin]

Thanks Wille59. I have the parts and electrical pdf manuals.. . but the parts manual does not have a visual flow breakout for the manifold. There is a flow/hose schematic outside of the manifold, just not inside it. I may be SOL. for that on this machine.

 

[VoodooMojo]

serial numbers are a handy thing.

The three coils mentioned suggests it is an early Z60.
Here is the schematic for the 2WD Traction Manifold.

What exactly happens when you select drive forward?
Which booms move and what turns?

There is not much going on in the Z60 hydraulic system so troubleshooting should be a snap.
Give us all the information you can and we will help.

 

[VoodooMojo]

for reference

 

[raistlin]

it is a 1995 Serial # z60-401 2 wheel drive unit.
The mechanic that took it apart and put it mostly back together died during completion,
and although a great guy, was unfortunately not a "picture taking and tagging" mechanic.
Everything (that i have checked) except the drive systems work well, maybe even a little two much flow when swinging the boom (it swings to fast to let a young'n operate it- but that is a to-do-list item for later).
The steering part of the drive train works well.
<> when the engine is started, hydraulic fluid starts seeping out of the main drive hubs.
If you then engage the aerial platform controls and drive REVERSE it drives with the steering wheels trailing.
When engaging the control in the FORWARD direction, fluid starts POURING out of the main drive hubs outside dust cover.
I switched the two lefthand solenoids and wires with no change.
Checked voltage at redish-pink and whitish-grey solenoid wires, getting 12V.
Grounds are to be decently connected to control/wiring box, cleaned all contacts.
No change.
Checked and cleaned valves under all three solenoids- spring works, cleaned orings looked good- reseated.
No change.
Checked main chuttle valve ead and sliding piston-cleaned, looks like a new part-reinstalled.
No change.

 

[VoodooMojo]

raistlin,

it is a 1995 Serial # z60-401 2 wheel drive unit.

When you say rebuild the turret, does that mean the turntable was seperated from the chassis?
If so, that means the hoses would have been removed and reinstalled. It sounds as though a case drain line may have been switched with the reverse direction line.

<> when the engine is started, hydraulic fluid starts seeping out of the main drive hubs.
Both of the hubs?

If you then engage the aerial platform controls and drive forward it drives with the steering wheels in back.
It does drive in this direction ok?

When engaging the control in the reverse direction, fluid starts POURING out of the main drive hubs outside dust cover.
Both drive hubs or just one? If just one, left or right?

I switched the two lefthand solenoids and wires with no change.
Checked voltage at redish-pink and whitish-grey solenoid wires, getting 12V.
Grounds are to be decently connected to control/wiring box, cleaned all contacts.
No change.
Checked and cleaned valves under all three solenoids- spring works, cleaned orings looked good- reseated.
No change.
Checked main chuttle valve ead and sliding piston-cleaned, looks like a new part-reinstalled.
No change.

 

[raistlin]

I was not a part of it, but he installed a shinny new turret bearing with Gear teeth on the outside, so your right they would have had to split the machine in half.
Yes, Both hubs... though one leaks marginally more than the other. I will have to go check which one.

It does drive fairly well in reverse with only very minimal fluid loss(which is obviously still not acceptable-but it could just be draining.)
As soon as it is in forward it stops moving and starts gurgling out the drive hub cap.

* checked hubs and it is about 60% out of the right rear main and 40% out the left rear.

 

[VoodooMojo]

It is sounding like the case drain line has been switched with a drive line.

You said you have a hosing diagram?
The hose routing for the Stem End of the Rotary Swivel is in the Turntable Section of the Parts Manual.
The hose routing for the Barrel end of the Rotary Swivel is in the Chassis Section of the Parts Manual.

Note the Port Numbers on the Diagrams in the PartsManual. There has been confusion with the numbering of them.
The threading for Ports 1, 2, and 4 are identical (1.312 x 12UNF). Port 3 (Steering) is a smaller diameter (0.750x16UNF).
So it is easy to put the incorrect fitting in a port.
Follow the numbering on the diagram in the parts book.
Let us know asap how that turns out.

Diligently trace the lines from the Drive Pump and the Function Manifold to the Hydraulic Rotary Swivel.
Diligently trace the lines from the Rotary Swivel to the Traction Manifold and to the Drive Motors

 

[VoodooMojo]

raistlin,
I see you are from McLeansboro...
I have spent many weekends there at Rend Lake,
Back in the day It was a fantastic Catfish and Crappie lake.
I know also I spent way too much time at the Crazy Horse and City Limits!

 

[raistlin]

I do have the two hose diagrams and have been looking at them since you gave me that excellent suggestion,
have not been back in there yet but I was thinking i needed to just trace,confirm and tag every line connecting to the rotary.

There were some other things that were not exactly um.... factory- so it would surprise me if you are not exactly right.
Jeesh, I spent 5 hours chasing a part failure problem that is probably going to be human error!
At least you saved me another day of grindingly verifying the whole system! Thank you!

Oh yeah, Rend Lake and Mcleansboro Lake can feed a man real good. My dad eats fish 3-4 nights a week- year round.
This winter he caught decent catfish nearly every week (using his secret bait, a mouse rolled in G&S cheese bait, shhh! .
City Limits is still there, and Crazy Horse is supposed to remodel and expand.
Across the street from Crazy Horse there was a lot of development on Lake Moses right as the economy was shrinking,
and so there are some 200-300K houses for sale around there that were 400-500K.
Thanks again for the help, I am going go check it as soon as it stops raining.

 

[VoodooMojo]

While you are checking those hoses, I'll just babble on here a bit...
I grew up just a bit north of you (LaSalle County).
Many weekends we would head to Lake Shelbyville, Rend Lake or Birds Point (south of Cairo), among other places.
Fishing or hunting. Best goose and duck hunting on the planet.
Also love those huge flatheads in the Mississippi!
I always envisioned building a house on 20 foot iron stilts near Birds Point.
That be some serious flooding there!

 

[raistlin]

So you were absolutely right. I was sure the problem would be under carriage, but it was right there in the open- in a place I though no one had worked on, and that they couldn't easily get wrong.
If the books Hydraulic rotary coupler view is Birdseye and the reliable index is the #3 APU Manifold fitting-then swapping the hose ends currently on
1 and 2 onto their proper fittings should do it. I added a picture in case it could help anyone else in the future.
This weekend I will have my buddy help me change them.
VoodooMojo, do you know the proper lockout sequence to make the hose switch safer?
OR do I just chain a I-beam to the boom joint, and slip an old drive shaft across the boom knuckle

When we were young and dumb we used to go "hogging" for flatheads down there.
Put a little tasty treat on your hand and shove your hand in a hole... then pull out whatever bites you.
It is a wonder we didn't lose a finger to a snapping turtle.
I don't know if I am wiser or just more chicken ****... but I do like all my appendages, and i am going to try to keep them.

Birds Point would be a beautiful place to build if you could get above the water line, and find a place to park your vehicles.
I think you would have to almost boat to your house in the spring, unless you put a garage on stilts/ramps.
It is just so odd to me to think of a place that you would have to bring everything up onto the deck.

 

[VoodooMojo]

the recommended procedure is to use an overhead crane.

 

[VoodooMojo]

I only tried it a couple times in the Mississippi. The catfish and turtles can be big and ugly there! I seen the guy on Mudcats (History Channel) last night get whooped by a 50 pounder.
Upstate near Oglesby is the Vermillion River. The flatheads only get to 35 or so pounds. There I spent the major part of my growing up time. Groped in the depths for uncountable quantities of catfish and snapper. Many people have never tasted the pure culinary treat of turtle. Their loss!
I got chewed up many times by ticked-off gar but luckily nothing serious.

Back to the Z60:
You may want to use an air blow gun (use safety goggles) and verify that all the hoses from the hydraulic swivel are routed correctly. Oil Dry will be a nice thing to have on hand.

I would start with the hose going from the Filter to the Swivel to the Drive Manifold.
Remove this hose from the fitting at the Return Filter, or wherever it terminates. Cap the fitting at the filter to avoid a mess.
Leave the hoses connected to the Hydraulic Swivel.
Remove the hose at the Tank Port of the Drive Manifold. Cap the Tank fitting at the Drive Manifold.
Blow air into the hose from either end and verify that the air indeed comes out of the other end of the hose.
If it doesn't, therein lies your problem. If it does, then everything is hunky-dory. Move on to another hose.

Remove Port A hose from the Drive Pump, cap the fitting on the pump.
Leave the hoses connected to the Hydraulic Swivel.
Remove Port A hose at the Drive Manifold, cap the fitting at the manifold.
Blow air into the hose from either end and verify that the air indeed comes out of the other end of the hose.
If it doesn't, therein lies your problem. If it does, then everything is hunky-dory. Move on to another hose.


Remove Port B hose from the Drive Pump, cap the fitting on the pump.
Leave the hoses connected to the Hydraulic Swivel.
Remove Port B hose at the Drive Manifold, cap the fitting at the manifold.
Blow air into the hose from either end and verify that the air indeed comes out of the other end of the hose.
If it doesn't, therein lies your problem. If it does, then everything is hunky-dory. Move on to another hose.

You can verify the Steering Circuit in this same manner.

If you need assistance this weekend with this, PM me and I will give you a phone number where you can reach me.
I will be glad to assist.

 

[raistlin]

i was afraid you were going to say that. There is a broken combine in the barn in the way of the hoist. dang. on to the next project so that i can finish this one!

 

[raistlin]

Problem fixed! the tech who rebuilt the rotary put two fitting in the wrong holes, so when the mech put the machine back together the hoses were on the right fittings, but the wrong ports! Operationally checked: OK. Thanks for your help VoodooMojo!

 

[VoodooMojo]

That is good new!
you will need to inspect the drive motors / brakes for seal damage and be sure to drain the torque hubs and refill with SAE90 Multipurpose hypoid gear oil.