I wanted to see if anyone has any experience with forestry tires on a wheel loader for water and sewer work. We have had a real wet year and major issues getting the loaders around the site. We have looked at some forestry tires and they are super expensive. Do the forestry tires improve mobility a lot vs the metric radials we have now? We are mostly looking at these for our Volvo L180H's. We don't do any road work with these, all site development so no real pavement driving. Do they slow the machine down a lot? Just curious how they perform overall and also how they perform when the ground dries out. Don't want to have to switch to the radials every time we have a little dry spell. Thanks for any input on this before we do an expensive experiment.
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Forestry tires
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old-iron-habit
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The forestry tires have very strongly built sidewalls and face designed to keep sharp stumps and sticks from penetrating. That is where the crazy cost comes in. Performance wise they should work OK. I am not sure how they will wear along side a normal loader tread. I can't see why they would slow the machine down. A logger friend of mine still loads gravel with an old 644 JD loader that started life and spent its first 15 years with a tree shear on it. They should perform well going forward but they are directional so you will lose some traction in reverse, although it still may have more than conventual tread loader tires. If you use them let us know how it turns out.
A question I have is how to you get compaction if the site is that wet?
A question I have is how to you get compaction if the site is that wet?
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Nige
Senior Member
What exact tyres are you using now and what pressure do you run..?
Volvo 180H loaders. Current tires are Bridgestone VTS 775/65R29. Think they are around 65 PSI but not 100% sure. Considering Primex Logstomper Super Hi Flotation HF4 66x43-25 20 ply tires.
As for compaction we use a lot of sand backfill. If the pipe is buried at all in the influence of the road we use the sand and compact in 2' lifts 100% of the trench. The 180 loader has a 7.2 yd bucket. We have to move the sand from the stock pile and back fill the trench so the less trips the better. We also need to take all of the spoils out of the trench and move them away from the trench. On 80 acre sites this can be a long haul depending on far in we can get the sand trucks to stock pile. I would say 90% of our sites use engineered back fill for road influence pipes. We also use a lot of sand and rock to bed the trench before pipe placement regardless of greenbelt or rod influence.
As for compaction we use a lot of sand backfill. If the pipe is buried at all in the influence of the road we use the sand and compact in 2' lifts 100% of the trench. The 180 loader has a 7.2 yd bucket. We have to move the sand from the stock pile and back fill the trench so the less trips the better. We also need to take all of the spoils out of the trench and move them away from the trench. On 80 acre sites this can be a long haul depending on far in we can get the sand trucks to stock pile. I would say 90% of our sites use engineered back fill for road influence pipes. We also use a lot of sand and rock to bed the trench before pipe placement regardless of greenbelt or rod influence.
Nige
Senior Member
The Bridgestone is an L-3 tyre which is probably not far out because it sounds like traction is not your issue. Regarding pressures 65psi (if your numbers are correct) is probably close on the front but if you don't do long carries loaded up to full weight you could try dropping the pressure to 60 or even 55psi. IMO 65psi is far too high for the rear, it should be no more than 40psi.
The forestry tyres generally have reinforced sidewalls which would negate the flexibility provided by a good radial tyre to get the maximum contact patch of the tyre on the ground. If you're struggling for flotation now with the Bridgestones I think you would struggle even more with what you're proposing. Apart from that I couldn't find any tyres for 29" rims of the brand you mention...... they appear to go from tyres for 26" rims straight to 32" rims.
Have you spoken to your Bridgestone supplier to see if they have any other alternatives to offer, maybe VKTs on the rear axle..? That's a traction/flotation tyre designed for soft muddy surfaces. I wouldn't be too keen on it on the front unless Bridgestone said OK though.
The forestry tyres generally have reinforced sidewalls which would negate the flexibility provided by a good radial tyre to get the maximum contact patch of the tyre on the ground. If you're struggling for flotation now with the Bridgestones I think you would struggle even more with what you're proposing. Apart from that I couldn't find any tyres for 29" rims of the brand you mention...... they appear to go from tyres for 26" rims straight to 32" rims.
Have you spoken to your Bridgestone supplier to see if they have any other alternatives to offer, maybe VKTs on the rear axle..? That's a traction/flotation tyre designed for soft muddy surfaces. I wouldn't be too keen on it on the front unless Bridgestone said OK though.
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Yes if we went with the Primex we would have to get a new rim made. Our thought with that particular size of Primex tire, 66x43-25, is the they are wider which would help with flotation and the aggressive tread would allow more traction. Our biggest issue on these sites is traction as the radials don't seem to clean our, they just turn to slicks. Also flotation. With all the digging and spoils at times we can get high centered. The 180H is a heavy machines so reducing the ground pressure is what we are aiming for. Our soil is a heavy clay that stays wet for a week or so after a .5' rain, which is common in the summer.
As for the VKT I did see this tires. It is a 80 series tire so it is a little narrower than our current tire. Wont that be a step backwards given our current problems?
As for the VKT I did see this tires. It is a 80 series tire so it is a little narrower than our current tire. Wont that be a step backwards given our current problems?
Nige
Senior Member
With a wider tyre on a 3" larger diameter rim are you going to run into any potential clearance issues with the machine frame, especially with the oscillating rear axle..?
TBH to get flotation/traction I'd go with a 29.5R29 VKT on your current rim.
I think I'd be talking to tyre companies to investigate possible solutions.
TBH to get flotation/traction I'd go with a 29.5R29 VKT on your current rim.
I think I'd be talking to tyre companies to investigate possible solutions.
old-iron-habit
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W
Have you looked at cutting your rims and adding a band in them to make them wider without changing the machine clearance. Its been done more than once.
Have you looked at cutting your rims and adding a band in them to make them wider without changing the machine clearance. Its been done more than once.
clintm
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you see a lot of sewer line out fall crews in my area using skidder tires on their loaders but they are a little smaller 624,644,L120 size machines you may get into a tire over load issue on the L180 size machines. By the way how are the new Volvo's performing any problems with them so far how many HRS on them
Volvos are doing great so far. They each have about 1200 hrs on them give or take. Really nice machines and no issues at all so far knock on wood.
I was worried about the tire overload. The tire guy we have dealt with for years has little to no experience in the forestry tire market, just knows he can get them. I am doing all the leg work on this one. The one rep that I met with from Bridgestone said that radials are just as good if not better than skidder tires in mud. If this is the case then we are not gonna make much progress. But looking at the tires I tend to think the skidder tires would do better. Maybe I just need smaller loaders haha.
I was worried about the tire overload. The tire guy we have dealt with for years has little to no experience in the forestry tire market, just knows he can get them. I am doing all the leg work on this one. The one rep that I met with from Bridgestone said that radials are just as good if not better than skidder tires in mud. If this is the case then we are not gonna make much progress. But looking at the tires I tend to think the skidder tires would do better. Maybe I just need smaller loaders haha.
clintm
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yeah that's kinda what I was thinking. the bigger machines make it nice and fast but if the ground won't hold them up some times they are counter productive. Years ago i had a L120C that I used on grading jobs and some times it was even to heavy for the soil conditions
Was talking to the boss today and we had an idea. We have a used Komatsu WA380-6 loader that we picked up for a good price from a company getting out of business. Since this is a little lighter unit I was thinking about putting a set of Galaxy Hippos on it and seeing how it gets along in the mud and measuring productivity versus the big 180's that keep getting stuck. Has anyone tried the hippos? Reading about them they kind of marry the best of logging tred with standard loader tire sizes so they wont affect articulation. Just curious if anyone has reviews of them?
Also was thinking about trying the 26.5 tires size as a way to get a little wider tire and some flotation. We have a set of 26.5 rims around the shop so no real cost there. Any problems with the 26.5 tires on the 380? Standard is the 23.5.
Still expensive tires but the may get me more bang for the buck for our experiment.
Also was thinking about trying the 26.5 tires size as a way to get a little wider tire and some flotation. We have a set of 26.5 rims around the shop so no real cost there. Any problems with the 26.5 tires on the 380? Standard is the 23.5.
Still expensive tires but the may get me more bang for the buck for our experiment.