I am looking for feedback for those who have experience in costs associated with dozer major component failures. What is your experience over the lifetime of a typical dozer on what parts will need replaced excluding the undercarriage. Figuring final drive x 2, possible engine rebuild, and a hydraulic pump over the ownership period from 4000 to 8000 hours. Would it be expected anything else to fail during this time frame for a finish dozer? How do you integrate major repair costs into hourly bid rate for equipment? Currently i take an estimate of costs divided by the expected service hours. For example my 550k i am using $60,000/4000 $15 an hour for major repairs with labor.
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Finish dozer lifetime repair cost analysis
- Thread starter Brian_
- Start date
Welder Dave
Senior Member
There isn't a typical dozer. There are a lot of variables. A lot depends on the working conditions, maintenance and the operator(s). I think large dozers are more cost effective to rebuild all the major components, often more than once. I think Nige mentioned mining dozers might get a full rebuild 3 times depending on the condition of the main frame.
Nige
Senior Member
Would this be a new zero hour machine or something used.?
Auction gamble. 3900 hours 2012 550k w ripper .already replaced undercarriage and cutting edges. No blowby decent condition. Appears a bearing is out of left drive has thumping sound no metal shavings and gears intact in process of rebuilding while its out of service. We use a finish dozer approx 450 hours a year.
CM1995
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- Jan 21, 2007
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- Running what I brung and taking what I win
Not much help since I buy new but I expect a finish dozer to go 8K hours with no final drive, engine or major component failure.
IIRC our 2004 D5G has 7K on the clock? I'll check next time at the yard. All we've had to replace is UC components and normal things like alternator, water pump, etc.
IIRC our 2004 D5G has 7K on the clock? I'll check next time at the yard. All we've had to replace is UC components and normal things like alternator, water pump, etc.
JAJ
Senior Member
This is a pretty interesting thread topic for me as I have a secondhand machine and am learning as I go with this issue.
I know there is a lot of variables but what is the average life expectancy of components?
I have a Cat D6H2 diff steer which is different to what the OP is asking about I know, but things would not vary to much would they?
I haven't had any major component failures yet (have done a trans pump and am going to be doing undercarriage soon-ish) so I am learning as I go but I would hope for more than 8K hrs on engines and transmissions ect.
I know there is a lot of variables but what is the average life expectancy of components?
I have a Cat D6H2 diff steer which is different to what the OP is asking about I know, but things would not vary to much would they?
I haven't had any major component failures yet (have done a trans pump and am going to be doing undercarriage soon-ish) so I am learning as I go but I would hope for more than 8K hrs on engines and transmissions ect.
Nige
Senior Member
In that case attempting to predict the future oil analysis might be your best friend.
So to be clear your aim is to try to predict what will happen in the time period between 3900 and 8000 hours, or approximately 8-10 years at your current 450 hours/year, correct.?
I would say that the biggest problem you face is the unknown regarding how the machine was treated before it came into your hands.
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Yes sir. Ive read the Cat performance manuals on O&M and several construction management books in college about lifetime costs but it seems written by bankers who just use percentages of sale value without any real world expertise in costs or they know something i do not. In one paper i read it noted that major components & labor costs will equal the value of the life of the dozer in other words once you spend the value of the dozer in parts replacement its economic life cycle is over.
However it was extremely vague on if that was a 35% salvage value or if that was new purchase price. With a replacement cost of 225k + 9% interest one would think that spending that much on repairs - sans warranty coverage - would price out just about anyone in the nonproduction world.
This is all just theoretical but i would really appreciate someone in the MX world who sees what breaks where and costs associated. At the end of the day the local market will determine the billable rates but with the typical influx of Dan Dozer & Eddie Excavator companies that pop up every spring, with little business experience, you have to have accurate calculations and not rely on what the client told you the other guy is going to charge.
I do like the oil analysis suggestion, on a used dozer it may pay to do them high frequency (100 hours) the first year and then move on to 250/hour once the auction surprises wear off. My analysis below is based off purchase price for parts only, no labor, and does not include any efficiency % for bid price where i typically use 10hour day for bid expecting 7.5 hours of dozer operation.
Acoals
Senior Member
I don't think you are going to be able to really crunch those kind of numbers with an auction machine. You take a machine that has been beat in a rental fleet for 2500 hours and compare it to a machine that a small guy bought and ran for 8000 hours and your costs are going to be completely different. With good maintenance you can go 8000 hours or more without major component failures. Poor maintenance, harsh operators and bad luck you can be rebuilding engines and transmissions at 2000 hours.
The kind of numbers you are throwing around on those spreadsheets are way above my pay grade; I generally look at rental prices on a monthly rental; the big rental outfits have all sorts of bean counters to figure that stuff out. Using that method a JD550 operates for about $32/ hour, long term, big picture. CM1995's expectation of 8000 hours out of a D5 is somewhere in that neighborhood, at least on a quick look. $200,000 machine, 8000 hours; that's $24/hour. Factor in undercarriage service and other maintenance and then used value on the machine when he trades it, and you are somewhere in that $25-30/hour mark for costs. That is strictly machine costs, not everything else involved.
The kind of numbers you are throwing around on those spreadsheets are way above my pay grade; I generally look at rental prices on a monthly rental; the big rental outfits have all sorts of bean counters to figure that stuff out. Using that method a JD550 operates for about $32/ hour, long term, big picture. CM1995's expectation of 8000 hours out of a D5 is somewhere in that neighborhood, at least on a quick look. $200,000 machine, 8000 hours; that's $24/hour. Factor in undercarriage service and other maintenance and then used value on the machine when he trades it, and you are somewhere in that $25-30/hour mark for costs. That is strictly machine costs, not everything else involved.
Yes that is one another way to look at it. Comparing my sheet to your numbers. 32/hour Ownership + 57/hour Labor & OH + 12/hr Fuel = 101/hour Cost per hour Own & operate. with 30% markup 101/0.7 that is showing $144/hour which is pretty close to where i am. From my understanding is that the rental companies also put a 30% markup on their equipment ownership and also in many cases on long term rentals will hold you liable to fix wear items such as cutting edges and teeth.
Nige
Senior Member
The problem as far as your situation is concerned is that all the estimates you mention assume that the "estimator" is dealing with a new zero hour machine, not something that came from an auction with 4000-ish previous operating hours with unknown history, and who knows what level of maintenance, already under its belt.
It's not unknown for the lifetime cost of a machine (in terms of components, parts & labour) to far exceed the purchase price. In the case of a dozer everything apart from the frame is rebuildable so until the frame cries enough the bolt-ons can be rebuilt/exhcanged ad infinitum. I know it's not really comparable but it's typical for something like a D10 to be assigned a total life of 80k hours before disposal with rebuilds every 16k.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
If you're only going to use the machine 500 hours a year, just do a full a service and use it. Do oil samples and don't abuse it. Abuse can mean different things to different people. Don't try to do the work of a D6, don't drive high speed especially in reverse, let the machine warm up before using and idle a minute before shutting down, etc. There are too many unknowns that could happen and there will always be unexpected repairs. Clean out the belly pan occasionally and clean the track frames.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
It's OK to do the same job but don't try to do it in the same time. Use the dozer within its design limits. If you've got lots of rock's or extreme conditions, it's better to get a bigger machine than to abuse a machine that's not designed for the conditions you're working in.