Filter Life When Submerged In Oil

[BladeManBob]

How long will the engine, hydraulic and fuel filters be usable when installed on a D4G hydrostat but not run after the last oil and filter change? In this particular instance the machine has sat idle for about eight years. With new batteries it fired right up and the machine was instantly operable. I am assuming the oils are OK to run, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I suppose one solution is to do oil sampling, how affordable is that?

Thanks to all, this board has been a godsend of information on heavy equipment matters. I don't know where one could find anything as comprehensive as this.

 

[Nige]

I'm afraid you are wrong. If it's been standing for eight years, change all the oils and filters on the machine - no exceptions, even the air cleaners, aircon filters, etc.
Oil deteriorates when it's in a machine, for example hydraulic will tend to absorb water vapour. Good quality oil & filters are the cheapest insurance policy you can ever buy. Note the words "good" and "quality", that doesn't mean buying the cheapest product you can find on the shelf at Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries.......

After you change all the oils and filters then oil sampling going forward is a good way of monitoring oil condition. A sample analysis and interpretation is around $35 in the US or so I'm told.

 

[thepumpguysc]

8 years?? wow.. & it never occurred to u to change that stuff??
Oils will separate.. filters will deteriorate.. what happens to a roll of toilet paper when its been submerged.
Just cuz it started, which is a plus after 8 years of sitting, but u probably did more harm than good actually starting it.!!
OLD Fuel, OLD OIL, OLD Filters.. dam.. for 100 bucks you woulda been set for the season..
Now u hafta worry about it.. FOR the ENTIRE season..
I hope it works out for ya..

 

[Nige]

Considering the climate in your neck of the woods it's probably worthwhile to change all the belts too, now that I think about it.

 

[kshansen]

Considering the climate in your neck of the woods it's probably worthwhile to change all the belts too, now that I think about it.

Yes considering the heat and humidity in that part of the country I hate to think of the moisture that would have built up over 8 years. A little water in the oil can cause the additives lech out. Anything that was above the oil level will most likely have at least a light bit of rust on it.

And I don't want to think of what might be growing in the fuel tank! I'd be draining all the fuel and then fill with fresh fuel with a heavy dose of algaecide!

I think I would have liked to see all the drain plugs at least loosened to check for water contamination before starting and mixing it through everything. I have no experience with Cat Hydrostates but know they are probably not too fond of water and rusty bits!

 

[BladeManBob]

A little looking around, and we do have an operation and maintenance manual for this D4G XL tractor as well as a machine fluids recommendations reference manual. To whit:

Engine oil capacity with empty filter is given to be a mere 3.4 gallons U.S. I infer from that the machine can be started with dry filters in place and the oil pump will do the rest. I have always prefilled engine oil filters, but I tend to come out behind the curve in these matters much of the time.

Secondly, while the hydraulic tank takes requires 9.8 U.S. gallons, the hydraulic system is listed as holding 22.2 U.S. gallons. Now, the tank is no biggie, but where is that 22.2 gallons residing, and how is it best removed?

 

[Nige]

First up be aware that the capacities are only approximate. Always fill to the dipstick or sight glass - often what you actually put in is significantly different to what the book says. You’ll be fine spinning all the filters on dry. If you want to prime them spin the engine over with the stop mechanism disabled so that the engine doesn’t start.
Regarding the hydraulic system the rest of the capacity is in the lines. Probably the best thing would be to change the oil in the tank, run the engine and exercise all the cylinders, then drain the tank again. If you try to drain the lines at the same time as you drain the tank make sure you have someone ready to add oil when you first start because it’ll disappear out of the tank in a heartbeat.

 

[BladeManBob]

At the risk of coming off like a real rube, there is a stop mechanism on this machine?

Used to be we just cut the fuel off with the throttle lever and spun the pony engine. Then they came out with electric starters. So you see where I'm coming from.

Where is this new fangled wonderment, the stop mechanism, pray tell?

 

[kshansen]

At the risk of coming off like a real rube, there is a stop mechanism on this machine?

Used to be we just cut the fuel off with the throttle lever and spun the pony engine. Then they came out with electric starters. So you see where I'm coming from.

Where is this new fangled wonderment, the stop mechanism, pray tell?

Well to be safe before trying to post specific information on this machine can you post the full S/N?

 

[JD955SC]

At the risk of coming off like a real rube, there is a stop mechanism on this machine?

Used to be we just cut the fuel off with the throttle lever and spun the pony engine. Then they came out with electric starters. So you see where I'm coming from.

Where is this new fangled wonderment, the stop mechanism, pray tell?

Some Cat engines nowadays have an “injection disable” plug that is changed out with a plug in the engine harness to disable the fuel injection system.

 

[BladeManBob]

Ser. No. CAT00D4GAHYD00836
I will be checking on the machine in the morning and verify that number, I wasn't too careful when I scribbled it down and there is some ink that ran on the last D that could make it a P or an 0.

Or, perhaps this is the real serial number is simply: HYD 836.

Lastly, I reckon how to disable the injection system with a plug is in that $478 CDROM. Uh-huh.

 

[Nige]

What JD is referring to is actually on the engine wiring harness on some types of engine. Basically there are two wiring harness connector plugs at a certain location. If you connect one of them to the injector pump the engine runs normally. Pull it and connect the other one and the injection system becomes disabled, so you can crank the engine over on the starter and it won't start. Unfortunately you don't have that system.

On the back of the injection pump is a solenoid valve controlled by the key (ignition) switch that shuts down the fuel supply to the pump to stop the engine. It is supplied by Wire # 327 Pink. With the engine stopped see what happens to the power on that wire (between and machine frame ground) when you turn the key ON, and then when you turn the key OFF. I'm not certain if it energizes to run, or if it only energizes to stop.

 

[kshansen]

Seems I recall at least some of the Cat loaders and I would guess other machines were energize to shut down and once the alternator output dropped there was a relay that then disconnected the power to the relay.

I see this machine has the pink wire coming from the ECM so that thought is not applicable.

 

[Nige]

Ken I looked at the D4G electrical schematic and the power to the shutoff solenoid comes straight from the ECM.
If it is "powered to run" then simply pull the wire off to not run while cranking.
If it is "powered to shut off" then it would be a case of energizing the solenoid externally for the purpose of cranking to prime the lube oil system without the engine starting.

 

[DMiller]

On engines that sat long would replace belts but not until after used the old belt to polish a little rust off the pulleys once got it running.

 

[BladeManBob]

I have verified the serial number on the D4G XL under discussion as:
MHK04990

 

[Nige]

That's the engine Serial Number. Machine S/N is HYD00836.
Info above is good. Refer to post #14. You need to do a test.

 

[BladeManBob]

Whew. Now that the serial number issue is settled, I turn to page 20 in the parts manual and find there is another plug that looks like it has a manually operated valve to drain the engine oil from the side without getting underneath the machine to pull the main drain plug. Any thoughts on which use?

Nige, I see the solenoid on the rear of the injection pump. Taking a multimeter next time I go to the machine and we will find out what gives.

 

[BladeManBob]

Nige,

Re: per test recommended in post 14 above, the pink wire going to the fuel shut-off on the D4G XL reads zero voltage with the instrument cluster key in the off position, master key on.

Reading 11.99 volts with the master and cluster keys both on, wire connection separated, engine off.

 

[Nige]

So to - "spin the engine over with the stop mechanism disabled so that the engine doesn’t start." as mentioned above, pull the pink wire off the stop solenoid. Happy Days ……..