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EX60URG No traction power when warmed up

paulrob

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Kelowna BC
My neighbor is an experienced operator who bought a small Hitachi when he retired. When cold, everything is OK. When warm, it won't steer, and a small stone becomes a major issue going forward or reverse. If there wasn't great power in the shovel, it wouldn't move - There seems to be much more hydraulic pressure on the boom than needed - he has to be very careful how he handles the boom - it moves fast.

This problem appears to have started when he had a mechanic switch controls from Cat to Deere (I think I'm using the right terms) when he first bought it, but he has no idea what was done.

I've been a mechanic most of my life, but don't know this equipment. I have pix of the pipes under the cab if needed.

We've been thru all the obvious - replace the hydraulic oil and filter, etc. But I'd sure like some input on what to check next. I think the pipes got switched when the controls were changed, but I'm only guessing.
 

joey327

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
7
Location
canada
Hi paulrob:

I have a john deere 70d which is very similiar to a ex60. To switch from a Cat pattern to a john deere pattern means the circuits were switched at the pilot value not the main valve.
If the pattern works when its cold it should work when its hot. Unfortunately if the machine will not travel when the hydraulic fluid gets hot - and all other funtions work well - its a sign the travel motors are going bad, although its unlikely both went bad at the same time. Have both gone bad at the same time or have you noticed one slowly getting slower than the other?
I'm currently experiencing problems with my travel motors and part availability but that is what happened to my machine - when cold worked ok - as the fluid got hotter the travel motors got worse to the point it wouldn't move. My problem turned out to be a bad final drive shaft - but when I took the motor apart I fear the radial pistons are wore considerably as well.
Just to be sure, why don't you have the pattern revearsed to original and see if the problem goes away before tearing into your motors.

cheers: JLB
 

cps

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
811
Location
Ireland
Occupation
plant mechanic
I agree, you need to have the guy that converted come back and have a look at it to make sure there is nt any hoses concected wrong!
 

abdul k

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
40
Location
Australia
Occupation
Technical Consultant
No traction when warm...

I had the same problem in my EX50UR, the "O" rings in my swivel hub had deteriorated thereby bypassing into other ports, my symptoms were basically same as your, difficult to go over just a tiny bump, but dug pretty well!. I had a bad HYD leak from the center of the machine coming from the round bash plate that protects the swivel hub, I removed this bash plate, and found the hub was leaking, I removed the swivel hub and dismantled it, all the "O" rings were us.
An old thread on this site on EX50URG, explains how and what i did to remove and the traps to watch out for when you remove a dismantle, re- install this swivel hub.
 

paulrob

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Kelowna BC
THX for the replies. Sry for taking so long but we've been building and just got buttoned up for winter. We haven't needed the how for a couple months so it was on the back burner.

The pipe switch took place in Rupert, about two days drive away, so it aint likely the guy will do a service call this far ;-)

I have to wonder if the fact that the problem occurred following the control switch was just a coincidence and maybe that's where we should be looking. And yes, one side seems to be worse than the other, but I'll have to check with Mr Neighbour on this.

And, no, there are no leaks anywhere under it. Its nice and dry, so I doubt that's the problem.

Any thoughts on how to test the traction motors and/or remove them?

THX again
 

willie59

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Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,415
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
I can't see how switch from Cat to Deere controls would have caused your problem as that only changes the joystick controls, has nothing to do with drive controls. As for testing motors, that would require connecting pressure gauge and doing various tests. However, you could simply check the case drain line from each drive motor to check for internal leakage. You would have to have proper plug fitting for hose when you remove it from motor to do test or you will lose oil from the hose. Then you stall out the drive motor and monitor leakage from case drain fitting of motor. Any quantity of more that a quart or two within a minute would be a suspect motor.

But far more common is what abdul k stated, failed seals in rotary joint. Very common problem and will cause drive not to be able to run over a pebble.
 

paulrob

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Kelowna BC
THX for the input - that's what was going thru my mind. The whole digging end does what its supposed to do, so my thought was it wouldn't mind which way the hoses were connected - its just the same fluid going to the same place by a different route.

Now, clue me in on what kind of pressure we're talking about and I think I can cobble up some fittings to get a gauge into the system. What is the rotary joint? I'm assuming I can find a diagram somewhere of what the motor looks like inside?

THX

PWR
 

willie59

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Service Manager
Rotary joint, rotary swivel, center swivel, all names for the same component. It's the rotating housing in the very dead center of rotation of the machine, hoses connect to it to feed oil to lower frame of machine, drive motors and blade. When the seals go bad in these units, drive goes south. Unless I have a good reason to suspect problem with drive motors, I would typically go into rotary joint first, especially if both motors are weak. The chances of both motors going bad at the same time is unlikely, sounds more like a problem with rotary joint. Additionally, even if you rebuild rotary joint and it turns out it's not your problem, they still aren't terribly expensive to re-seal, and that's one more thing you now would have in good order on your machine.
 

abdul k

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
40
Location
Australia
Occupation
Technical Consultant
Yes I very much agree with that, I would rather eliminate the simple and inexpensive issues first, before confronting the complicated trouble shooting.
Remember, these machines are very duarble and will take a lot of abuse before the expensive items start failing !. That is what I found anyway, since I repair my own machine. Mine is a dilapidated crapy machine, but boy it works well ..... in my back yard anyway ! :)
 

holtgrey

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Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
7
Location
ENGLAND
HI I tried o find your old thread on ex50urg swivel removel but noluck ,can you point me in the right place .thanks
 

abdul k

Active Member
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Oct 17, 2010
Messages
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Location
Australia
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Technical Consultant
Holtgrey,
The thread is called EX60 LOW POWER JOINT OR TRACKMOTORS. Go into advanced search (R/H corner of this website) and type the name of this thread, you have to go to the end of the thread. If you require more information, I can provide more tips as what to watch out for and what not on this thread or send me a message through the PRIVATE MESSAGES and I will send you my email address so I can provide further info. Which ever you prefer.

HI I tried o find your old thread on ex50urg swivel removel but noluck ,can you point me in the right place .thanks
 

abdul k

Active Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
40
Location
Australia
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Technical Consultant
Holtgrey,
Its probably because you are a PROBATIONARY MEMBER and you may not have access to some of the threads. Willie will send you the link.

abdul k
hi i dont know what i am doing wrong but i cant get your thread up
 

holtgrey

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
7
Location
ENGLAND
abdul k
still no luck with your thread.Its the access to the joint that looks realy bad .My job is on a ex55ur maybe same as yours . afew pointers would be good
thanks
 

abdul k

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Oct 17, 2010
Messages
40
Location
Australia
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Technical Consultant
G'day HOLTGREY .... :)
Yes, it looks like a nightmare BUT with the proper tools and a bit of thinking, its quite easy, whatever you do, don't lose your cool.:Banghead
Release HYD pressure from system before you do anything else, grab a slab of beer very very cold :)!!!!
Take a deep breath and away you go .....
Remove the four or five hoses from the top, I used coloured zip ties to mark the hoses to the fittings or ports that it comes off.
I used crowfoot open ended 3/8 spanners with a long 3/8 extension with a 3/8 45 cm breaker bar, you are virtually working from directly above the upper section of the joint. Perpendicular !!
With all hoses off (marked), remove the tang that locates or keeps the top half of the joint working with the upper structure as the excavator turns round and round.
Next,. crawl under the machine and remove the round bash plate held by 3 bolts if memory serves me correct.
You will see the lower half of the joint with steel HYD lines coming off the lower half.
You will also see that deep in there would be 3 bolts that hold the lower half of the joint to the lower structure of the machine (track frame), loosen the bolts BUT do not remove until
you have removed all the steel HYD lines or at least get it out of the way, now done be lazy, loosen the lines at both ends and remove all the clamps that hold the steel lines in place.
Why? you may ask ..... because the SWIVEL is heavy and if you are removing this by yourself, like I did, you want it to come out without a fight, which you will have if you have stiff steel
lines hanging around .... I kept the lines clear out of the way by using good old zip ties ! :).
Plus when you installing it, you don't want to be fighting with it with one hand and trying to install the bolts at the same time ...unless you are popeye !
After you have removed the joint, mark the top half to the bottom half with etching pen may permanent marks , you don't want to lose these marks even if you wash it in the parts wash !.
The SWIVEL is three pieces with a plate / flange sandwiched in between, note this plate has an "O" ring on the inside also, REPLACE this "O" ring also !.
MARK this plate also to install it in the same position to the other TWO pieces. You will understand why these marking is so so so important when it comes to
installing the locating tang that you removed in the beginning !!!!.
Pull the SWIVEL apart and replace the TEFLON seals, You will have to use HYD press to remove and install the pieces back together again as per the locating marks that you etched.
The new TEFLON seals ( I think) are very very very stiff and the upper half will be very difficult to install unless you have a HYD press to push it into the bore / housing, LUBE it very well.
There are 6 or 7 seals that separate the ports , this is where your problem lies I suspect and you wish !!! :).
Install the SWIVEL back and jobs done ! Goodluck .... you will be proud of yourself after this job and the problem goes away !
Abdul ...
:D

abdul k
still no luck with your thread.Its the access to the joint that looks realy bad .My job is on a ex55ur maybe same as yours . afew pointers would be good
thanks
 

holtgrey

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
7
Location
ENGLAND
ex60urg no traction power when warm

abdul k
Many thanks for your advice ,I will now make the supreme effort
 
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