EX 50 URG won't start

[captain charlie]

I thought the battery was done, the red light was very dim as I was working when i noticed it. I sat there pulling and pushing the throttle trying to make it go out, the red light flashed bright a few times but never went out. The light was very dim not bright at all as I was trying to make it go out. I stopped the machine and got a new battery into it and now as I try to start the engine it just clicks as I turn the key. The battery is fully charged I put it on the charger then tested it before I reconnected it.
In the past when ever I went to start the machine I would turn the key and it would either make contact and turn the starter motor or I would have to turn the key to off and try again. it would catch most times on the second or third try. Now it just clicks. This has been happening ever since I bought the machine. Not really to sure what to try next.

 

[Nige]

Check, clean, and re-tighten every cable connection on the circuit between the batteries and the starter motor as a first step including the ground connections between engine and chassis if the machine has them. From the description in your post above your problems started long ago even before this latest issue. You may have an ignition keyswitch problem on top of whatever else is wrong now.

If the charging light came on while the machine was working then the issue isn't battery IMHO, but more likely an alternator problem or even the alternator belt or tensioner. Did you even check them..?

 

[lantraxco]

Alternator or wiring issue I think as Nige suggests. The Japanese usually use a "Safety relay" tied into the alternator so you can't engage the starter once the alternator is charging, indicating that the engine is already running. Wiring, Alternator, safety relay, could be any one or all three? Check the big battery relay also if it has one, will be right by the battery in a main cable.

 

[captain charlie]

Thanks Nige and Lantraxco I started to clean the terminals from the battey to the Battery Relay and discovered the problem was with the Battery Relay. I put a jumper across the terminals and the spot lamps came on. So i bumped the starter key and the engine turned over. Tension on the alternator belt was fine, I clean the connections to the alternator and continued on to the starter motor connections. I havn't started the engine yet and was wondering if I put a jumper across the two leads on the Battery Relay and started the engine should I take it off right away or will it do anything the the eletrical system? Anyways a new Battery Relay in on route and i should just wait to install it. Thanks again.

 

[lantraxco]

The battery relay takes the place of a master switch, except instead of having to turn on the master switch before starting the machine, it comes on automatically when you turn the key. The real bonus is, unlike a master switch you may forget to turn off, it drops out and disconnects all possible draws when you turn the key off, the only power direct from the battery goes to the key switch. So, it won't hurt anything to run it with the batter relay terminals jumpered, I usually just move one of the fat leads so they're both on one bolt. Just remember to undo it when you shut down at night or the battery may be dead in the morning.

Or as you say just wait for the new relay. You did check to see if the key switch was sending power to the battery relay, yeah?

 

[captain charlie]

Ok, so the new battery relay was a bit different, it had two smaller terminals on the other side compared to the old one which only had one terminal. Not to hard to figure out, I took the lead off the starter side (in the picture above) and put it on one of the smaller terminals, left the one on the battery side and grounded the other smaller terminal with the small wire that came off the old one. Turn the key and the pane lights come on, turn to start the engine and click, reset click, it still just clicks.

 

[lantraxco]

No, you need to have all the leads the same as they were on the big terminals, connect the small wire to one small terminal and just put a short lead to ground like a mounting bolt from the other small terminal. Usually they come with a short wire and a lug sized for a relay mounting bolt. The single terminal battery relays just internally ground one end of the relay coil, these with two small terminals are set up so they work with a switched hot or ground.

 

[captain charlie]

Ok I think I got that, reading it a second time around. Put the two wires back on the large terminals, leave the wire that came off the single lead of the old battery relay on one of the small terminal and ground the other small terminal to machine frame. Thanks Lantraxco, I'll give it a try right now.

 

[captain charlie]

I put all the leads back where they were originally and added a ground wire to the other small terminal and still clicks when I turn the key to the start position. I noticed I don't have any spot lights on when I turn on the light switch.

 

[lantraxco]

Check the wire coming to the battery relay, make sure it goes hot when you turn the key on, the relay is pulling in and both large lugs are hot when the key is on. Also if it stays that way when you turn the key to start, the relay may be dropping out. Not sure what's happening now.....

 

[captain charlie]

I found a small Relay which Hitachi calls it a Safety Relay behind the battery tucked down under the rad just in front of the engine. This is the unit that is doing all the clicking. I thought it was the solenoid on the starter until I tested for power and discovered it was dead. I managed to get a friend over to turn the key and found this little unit. It's got two fairly large wires and some smaller ones attached to it. I'm not to sure if to wise to jump across the large terminals to see if it will start. Is this unit clicking because it has an issue further up the line and wont allow contact with the starter or is it worn out from years of service? Having no wiring diagrams to consult makes it a little more challenging. last thing I need to do it have burnt wires on top of a non-starter It was getting to dark to finish checking it out.

 

[lantraxco]

I'm lost here. You originally said you could jumper the battery relay and then the starter would engage with the key, no?

So with the new battery relay in place, is it pulling in, do you have power on the main lead going to the starter?

The safety relay is part of the system that sends power to the small wire connected to the starter solenoid, some machines also have another starter relay before the solenoid. Pictures might help...

 

[captain charlie]

That's right Iantraxco. I put the old Battery Relay back on with the jumper wire crossing the two large terminals. It started up no problem. No battery light on the panel. Everything works fine, when I took the jumper wire off and tried to re-start the engine it just clicked. I have cleaned all the terminals from the old battery relay, starter/solenoid safety relay and the alternator.
Tomorrow I'll replace the old Battery Relay with the new one and check to see if there is power to the starter. I see there is other relays inside the control box next to the seat. I should pull the top off and have a good look.

 

[lantraxco]

Sounds like the problem is related directly to the battery relay, neither the old or new may be pulling in properly since when you jumper across the machine seems to act correctly? Have you checked to see if you for sure have power coming to the battery relay from the key switch?

 

[captain charlie]

Yeah I thought at first it may have been the key switch. It has always been a little slack. I would turn it and it wouldn't catch, so I would have to turn it back to off position and try again. It would catch and start on the second or third time. its always been hard to get it to make contact. But it does start the engine when it engages so it not the key switch ( I do need to replace it sooner or later). I'm not sure if I should just put a night switch on the negative lead and turn it off every time I finish using it. I think there are relays inside the control box not to sure if they have anything to do with the starting side of it.

 

[captain charlie]

I started to check the wires for power and noticed two out of three small green wires coming from one of the leads off the key switch have melted the vinyl jackets around them and are bare in some places. Lucky I noticed and turn the night switch off. Anybody have a Hitachi EX50URG or 1990s Hitachi 12 volts schematic you could send me. I have the Hitachi EX60 URG schematic but it is 24 volt and not much good.

 

[Mark Denize]

Hey there Captain Charlie I have the same machine EX50URG. Did you ever find the electrical schematic? I have been chasing a few gremlins and gone pretty much the same route as you.
I do have the operators manual if you or anyone is still looking, although scanning the whole thing would be a mission!

 

[ELKHUNTER#1]

Does anybody know hitachi part # for battery relay for ex50urg?