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Ether addicted engines

fast_st

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Dec 1, 2010
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Mass
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IT systems admin
Diesel fuel needs heat to burn, heat comes normally from a combination of air/engine heat and compression, if those two are enough (warm weather or block heater) it'll light. A warm engine also spins faster to increase the combustion chamber pressure faster.


Ether adds to the equation by lighting off much earlier than diesel, increasing heat and compression and should assist the diesel fuel part in firing. Ether will run a diesel engine but generally its meant to increase temperature, pressure and speed to get the main system lit. Low compression, cold temps, poor fuel delivery all make an engine not want to start on its own.
 

alan cox

New Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Luther michigan
if you have ever owned international stuff. you will buy it by the case. pre heat all ya want to. there are different types of equipment being discussed here. i have discovered the carbon in the little holes in the end of the injectors plug with time.
i cured one by simply taking a wire from a wire brush. hammering it to a tiney screwdriver tip. put that wire in a little holder and twist it in the little holes untill they are clean and the tip can spray a mist again instead of dribbling out the fuel. the mist will ignite. the dribble will make the engine sort of run but NOT start.
the ether jumps that gap.
all injectors over time will carbont he little holes shut. but i have had several international style engines and starting was crazy. glo plugs. eyther. what ever. just hate it.
addiction is putting it mildly. one answer is buying really good fuel. or dumping some gas in it for extra boost. especially in the cold weather.
i have a allic chalmers 180 that needs just a whif and i mean the shortest shotyou can possibly give it. eitherthat or crank and crank and smoke and smoke but no ignition. runs perfect. lots of power. will not start cold. ????
 

tuney443

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Mar 19, 2006
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Location
Dutchess County,NY
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excavating contractor
Actually,today's ether is so watered down that unless you were actually using it to keep the engine running,I doubt it would hurt anything if you use it VERY sparingly and ONLY after the engine turns over for a few seconds to get some oil pressure going.I've seen cans that say ''with upper cylinder lubricant.''
 

STRPETE

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Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
23
Location
Cle Elum, WA
I once rebuilt an engine out of a John Deere 670 grader. The owner sent his own guys down to pick it up and install it themselves. They called up a couple days later complaining about massive amounts of blow-by, and leaking head gasket. This time they brought the whole machine in, and all the head bolts were stretched, and rings broken. Instead of priming the fuel system when they installed the engine, they just poured the **** to her. They paid for a second overhaul.
 

Ronsii

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Jun 26, 2011
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Western Washington
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s/e Heavy equipment operator
Yep, I've done the bee trick with ether but with a twist, I have a hand torch in the other hand. heh heh heh

I was also showed the gas and rag trick, it works pretty slick as you can't overdose with it and no knocking!
 

stinkycat

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Oct 19, 2009
Messages
224
Location
Ohio
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retired, disabled vet
Back in the early 60's I was stationed on a repair ship in San Diego, we were tied to buoys in the bay on cold foggy mornings we have to start the liberty boats up to pick the crew up. The boats were powered by 2 valve 6-71's with 6 volt batteries we had no ether so we used a burning rag on the air inlet to start one engine and tried to drag the other one one line or we just ran one engine until the batteries recharged
 
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surfer-joe

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Joined
Mar 25, 2007
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1,403
Location
Arizona
At anywhere below zero degrees F., older Cat and other make pre-combustion engines generally will not start, even if all mechanical items are perfect. Hell, a lot of direct injection engines won't start either. That when you pull out the ether cans and give them a good snort.

How to start a Cat 651B 67K on a cold dark January morning in Wyoming: This also works in New Jersey, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia, Illinois, Michigan, Colorado, and Utah and Nevada.

1. Get to jobsite and sit in pickup cursing cold weather for a few minutes.

2. Put coveralls and other cold weather gear on.

3. Curse cold weather some more.

4. Get in toolbox and retrieve two cans of ether.

5. Stuff more ether cans in your pockets.

6. Bang on cab door so it will break loose and open.

7. Have your buddy get in cab and have him jam transmission in reverse.

8. Turn master switch on and start preheating the glowplugs for minimum two minutes, more likely four minutes.

9. Use that time to crawl up the ladder on right side. Be careful, it's slippery you fool!

10. Beat snow off air cleaners. Remove both air cleaner covers.

11. Spray thick pattern of ether on both inner air filters.

12. Have partner jam thottle to floor and start cranking the engine.

13. Shoot more ether on inner air filters.

14. Duck large cloud of soot and ash coming out of muffler.

15. If engine begins to fire off on a couple of cylinders, shoot more ether in. Make sure partner stays on thottle. It has to be on the floor!

16. As engine begins to rev up, give it more ether.

17. As transmission starts to drag engine RPM down, give the engine air filters more ether.

18. When engine tachs out and trans is whining good, reinstall both outer air filters tightly.

19. After engine starts and you have about 60 pounds of air built up, pull the retarder in all the way and keep that engine up at full RPM. This forces the tranny oil to heat up quickly. Let retarder go after oil temp comes up a bit.

20. Motion partner to pull trans into neutral whilst keeping thottle to floor. As the engine starts to torque down, shoot more ether in the precleaner bonnet.

21. When engine is finally idling normally, carefully step down, throw empty ether cans at pickup, and move on to the next one. Remember, you started getting the iron ready at four in the morning for a 7AM production start. One down, nineteen to go..... Then the pushcats, compactors, and graders

22. Call down to the warehouse for more ether or send someone in to town to get a pallet or so.

23. Repeat untill all 20 pans are started. Put production supt off as it's now 7:30AM.

24. Repeat next day.


Remember, just because you got the big bustards started, doesn't mean they are going to move anywhere. The brakes are froze you know.

If the above does not work, leave that machine sit and go on to the next. When you have as many started as possible, start working back thorough the line.

1. Try all the dead ones at least once. Didn't start, huh? Not unusual!

2. While you remove the trans input shaft cover (at rear of trans), have your pard remove the outer air filters again.

3. Hook up a machine that started easily (probably a D9) with a set of double 00 jumper cables to the batteries under the cover on the right front. If you are lucky, use the Cat quick-start jumpers instead, they are far better than any clamp on jumpers, and using them is much less dangerous than jumping straight to the batteries)

4. Start engine, let it run until the coolant guage shows it's up to operating temperature. Shut engine off.

5. Keep trans in reverse all this time.

6. Reinstall trans drive shaft, cover, and retainer bolts.

7. Mash thottle to floor, hold it there.

8. Attempt to start engine again.

9. If it starts, follow steps 18-20 above.

10. Reinstall outer air filters and covers. You did help the engine with more ether didn't you?

11. Remove jumpers and reinstall cover if you took it off. (this is a good time to check and tighten battery terminal clamps and make sure battery cables are snug in their clamps. Make double sure the battery holddowns are in good repair and fastened down tight.

12. Oh crap, you forgot the brakes are frozen to the drums, didn't you?


My crew and I worked from 4AM to noon one Saturday in 1975 trying to get 20 651's started. At noon we had half of them going, but production decided that ten wasn't enough and went home. (bar) MY crew spent the rest of the day getting the other ten going and performing general maintenance. I could tell about many other places this had to be done with the B-series D346 engines and 8-speed transmissions. This method of starting extreme cold weather machines was not only approved by Caterpillar engineers and techs, they came up with the original idea.

Some early 67K's that went to Alaska for Green Construction actually had a dog clutch installed between the torque divider and the transmission input shaft. These didn't work out too well and around 67K65 the idea was discontinued. That's when the factory came up with the plan of placing the trans in reverse. They found out in field tests that the transmission pump, in neutral, tried to build up too much pressure, around 400+ pounds I believe. In reverse, the trans safety valve only spooled up to about 60 pounds and that allowed the engine to keep turning over. As the trans oil began to loosen up and with the engine at full RPM, you could pull the trans into neutral, but you had to stay on it. Once we got the hang of it, starting these beasts became much easier. Those that are familiar with the D-series 60-degree engines know that at less than full RPM, these machines couldn't get out of their own way. At full blast, they were nearly unstoppable.

Surprisingly, we had few engine or transmission failures. We kept two pallets of new batteries in stock and a pallet of starters too. We had a standing order for a pallet of ether every week from NAPA, and sometimes had to buy more.

Ether is a great tool for starting engines, cleaning oil and grease off parts, thowing out frozen door handles and padlocks. Used with care and experience, it will not hurt an engine, or you.
 
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thabull

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Oct 10, 2011
Messages
57
Location
lorida florida
Occupation
owner of diesel injection repair shop & mobile rep
If people would service the injectors& possibly valve adjustment at the recomended intervals or do the following! You would not need lightning in the can,and little does 90% of yall know that transmission fluid atf (red stuff) is the best carbon cutter out there for long term use! I rebuild injection pumps,turbos and injectors,I also teach classes once a month(2day class),testomonial customer brings in 6 injectors out of a 6bt cummins with 250k miles for me to rebuild,tore down the first one at my bench and it was shinny silver inside! ( wow never seen this before ) So I took the other 5 to the pop tester and they had spray patterns like new ones,so I called him to come get them because they did'nt need nothing( oh the first one was like new too) I asked him what kind of cond. or cleaner additive he used and he said that he would split a quart of atf between his two tanks on his pickup truck ,he said they were 17 or 18 gallon tanks.So I have always figured 1 pint per 17 gallons! Everyone else cries lucas,&misc. what i say lucas mucas! But after rebuilding aprox.500 set of injectors over my 25 years.Im sold,expecially for the price! matter of fact I keep a 5 gallon can at my friends tranny shop and they save some of the cleaner atf of their services,and I strain it,works fine! I also run it in my 2000 buick,keeps it in top shape. face it- its petroleom gas or diesel ! Lucas to me is just glorified STP, as far as oil additive,I go with oil additives with PTFE (teflon) encylopedia says its the slickest thing known to man ! And I will back that up by saying that when I first used a PTFE additive to my oil in a v8 diesel It ran 200 rpms higher and had to idle it down ,next oil change i did'nt use it and had to idle it back up 200 rpm, sold me again lucas mucas! (BY THE WAY SLICK 50 DOS'NT USE PTFE ANYMORE) I told them they need to take it out of the stores then! And there is some greases that have PTFE in them that works very well, I had a certain sealed roller bearing that kept going bad,the last time I changed it I picked the seal off one side and washed their grease out and packed it with PTFE grease well 10 years later Im still running that same bearing! Sold me again Lucas mucas ! THANKS IM NEW HERE HOPE I CAN HELP WITH SOME PROBLEMS EXPECIALLY FUEL PROBLEMS DOC DSL.
 

thabull

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Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
57
Location
lorida florida
Occupation
owner of diesel injection repair shop & mobile rep
Thank god i live in florida,that scared the crap out of me! Hat off to ya! We all need a bumper sticker that reads " be nice to your mechanic"
 

koldsteele

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Aug 20, 2010
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Location
Va.
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Owner Heavy Equipment Mechanic
Where in God's green earth is Lorida ,Florida :rolleyes:
 

thabull

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Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
57
Location
lorida florida
Occupation
owner of diesel injection repair shop & mobile rep
Yea I could just imagine getting all that equipment started,heck when its 30 degrees I cant hardley function,my feet get cold.But Ive slowed down alot at 49yr,Ive worked on everything from a to z ,except a dam weed eater and a chainsaw,It wont happen! When I was 17 I threw that mcoula saw down and stomped it ,never again! Whats strange is I rebuild injector pumps-cat,bosch,cav,stanadyne&turbos ,but cant fix a weedeater or saw! But yea I slowed down to mainly injection,build a diesel engine once in a while if the price is right! Have a good one surfer dude
 

fast_st

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Dec 1, 2010
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Mass
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IT systems admin
Found the cure for ether starts on a 50's cummins J, replace the J with a 4BTA :) no more ether!
 

Ashley52

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Jul 14, 2018
Messages
12
Location
united states
Occupation
freelancing
I had an old Rabbit brought in once that ripped the threads off of all 10 head bolts and blew the head clean off the block, shattered all 4 pistons, and bent all 4 rods as a result of an ether start. Even blew the head gasket into little pieces and scattered it all over the engine bay.
 
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