• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Estimators ?

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
Anyone have a inhouse estimator or hire one by the job? I am bidding some commercial jobs and am looking for a estimator . I have some questions about them , like do they work on a per bid basis or do most of them want to be hired full time? Thank you, doug
I'm in Maine.
 

donlang

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
47
Location
North of Pittsburgh, Pa
Occupation
Owner- full service excavating firm
If you are looking to have earthwork takeoffs done for you, I can probably provide you with an avenue. There are a few freelance take-off guys out there, but they are sometimes hard to find.

I have worked all of my adult life in the excavation field, 21 years being in the business myself. I have a few contacts that may be able to help you, or if this is an isolated thing, I may be able to help.

If you want to contact me off list, my email is xxxxxxxxxx. If you want information about me, contact our moderator, digger242, as we are friends.

:usa
 
Last edited by a moderator:

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,648
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
I edited Don's email out, because the spambots search for that sort of thing. There's an email function on each user's profile that'll send one through the board here. Once contact has been established that way, or by PM, it can be up to you whether to exchange your personal email addresses, but we always discourage posting them in plain sight. :spaz
 

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
Thanks Don for the help. It isnt a isolated thing, I was looking to use someone frequently to estimate commercial jobs for me. I was wondering if anybody out there did it freelance style. As in i could get them a link to the plans/specs and they could do the estimate based on my prices per yard, per hour, etc.
Maybe theres no such thing and i need someone to do take offs and then i will plug in the numbers.
Thank you, doug
 

rino1494

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
831
Location
NEPA
Why not do it yourself ?? We do all of our own estimating by hand. It isn't hard, it just takes some experience.
 

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
Thanks rino, i guess i dont have the experience. I am mostly a residential contractor and our largest jobs are $250k - $300k subdivision roads. I am looking to bid on some commercial contracts up to $600k' - $750k'ish. Can i buy some software or just use RS. Means estimating books? I am not experienced in doing take offs and estimating larger projects , thought i would sub this out to a estimator. Where did you get the experience in bidding. doug
 

rino1494

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
831
Location
NEPA
We are a small business (3 employees, plus my dad). It is his business. We build developments, do house work and small commercial sites. We just learned from hard knocks. Maybe you could hire out the first job to a estimator and figure out the bid yourself and compare the 2 bids and see how you did. IMO, it is kinda hard to have a "outsider" do you bidding. Personally, I would like to know if I'll be making money or not.
 

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
OK, sounds like I should be estimating them myself. I guess thats what i will do. I had just heard that other companies were using estimators , they must mean they have someone in house. I have been bidding on some larger jobs in the last year and i am not within a row of ***holes of getting the bid. I think i was looking for someone to compare my estimating practices next to. Maybe see why i'm so far off. Thanks for the help. doug
 

rino1494

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
831
Location
NEPA
Why are you losing the jobs, are you too high or too low ???

Most of the larger companies in my area have multiple in-house estimators and they use computer programs. I have no experience with computer programs. Everyone that uses them loves them. This might be a option if you do enough bids. Good luck to you.
 

Jeff D.

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
1,280
Location
MN.
DigDug, I bought a book that was just about estimating but found out it's geared toward BIG jobs and way over my head.

The book is Estimating excavation by Deryl Burch, about 446 pages of formula's etc.

Here's the book : http://www.amazon.com/Estimating-Excavation-Deryl-Burch/dp/0934041962 You can page through it online I guess.

Take a look at it, and if you want it I'll send it too you. No charge.(unless you want to pay the shipping)

It's still practically brand new. It's just collecting dust here.:yup

PM me if it's something you're intersted in.
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
I ran into the same problem. The jobs I was used too quoting are smaller than yours, under 100k. I contacted some GC’s in my area and was put on their bid lists for site work. The one GC’s that I had worked for so far up to that point was the only one and he and I would sit down together, go over the plans and come up with a number. He is going to use me no matter what as long as my number was reasonable and he got the contract. So this is a great working relationship. My thinking was can I develop this same relationship with other GC’s. The answer is no, so far. The other GC’s use me to get a number; my number is best some times but still hires the excavator that they want to use anyways. They just tell him my number to keep him honest. The GC has to get viable bids on most sub work and you could be one of them. You have to watch out for this, because it does take a lot of time to quote a larger project. The process is the same as a smaller project, just more of the same kind of work you are used to. So use the same math but discount it some because of the work will be in one location and more money or volume. I did do some sub work for another larger excavating company than myself last summer and that help a lot, he was busy and I took the work that he couldn’t do at the time. Bottom line is GC’s are very, very tough; the best case snareio is to build a relationship with GC on a smaller project before you take larger project from them for a lot of reason. I am to the point with a couple of guys that they do tell me if my number is good, but that doesn’t grant me the work. I have asked for smaller work from the new contacts that I have made and have explained to them why, for the reasons listed below. I have also explained to them that I am not a quoting machine just so they can get the 3 quotes that they need. I have also requested to meet with the final decision maker from each GC, maybe lunch to explain to them what I am capable of and what I am not capable of. I also have requested to meet with the decision makers to have them tell me that if my number is the best on a project that I can handle that I will get the work. I am to the point that I had a couple of nice projects lined up if the GC was awarded the contract, both times he didn’t get the work. I am sure that some of the site work guys on here can add a lot to this, this is just what I have found out in the last few summers. I have also declined to quote work from one GC because I have quoted about a dozen jobs and was told that my number was best and still did't get the work. So now when they call I am to busy to do the job.

You want to make sure they pay, including the retainage
You want to know how they treat you in the process
Your exposer is as little as possible if they do not pay.
The GC gets all warm and fuzzy from your work if the job is small enough so it is very easy for your company to really shine
 
Last edited:

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,648
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
Here ya go, Jeff. I'm sure this one is more your speed...

:bouncegri
 

Attachments

  • estimating manual for Jeff (Small).jpg
    estimating manual for Jeff (Small).jpg
    37.8 KB · Views: 437
  • estimating manual for Jeff2 (Small) (2).jpg
    estimating manual for Jeff2 (Small) (2).jpg
    64.2 KB · Views: 433
Last edited:

Jeff D.

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
1,280
Location
MN.
Here ya go, Jeff. I'm sure this one is more your speed...

:bouncegri
That probobly true!:crying :wink2

That estimating book I bought above talked about which gear to run your scrapers in to maximize the amount of earth moved per hour, and..............well I think I feel asleep by that point. It was geared for the big boys, not for me to help give a price to replace a driveway culvert.

I did get some other really good books from Amazon about operating TLB's and dozers so my order wasn't a complete waste.

I just pick it up when I can't sleep, 2 pages and I'm out.:sleeping
A tax man or an accountant would like that sort of book.
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Alright, I'm ready to soak up more information. :yup

Whats the deal with the whole bidding process? I understand that people want the most for their money but why not call people who do the work you want and take the best price. Where do all those formulas and programs come into play, after all its the lowest price you're looking for right? Why does it have to be so difficult? I'm not trying to down play the bidding process, I just don't understand it. And does it benefit both parties or just the customer? :confused:

I think I'm the one that needs that book.
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
Whats the deal with the whole bidding process? I understand that people want the most for their money but why not call people who do the work you want and take the best price. Where do all those formulas and programs come into play, after all its the lowest price you're looking for right? Why does it have to be so difficult? I'm not trying to down play the bidding process, I just don't understand it. And does it benefit both parties or just the customer?

The bid process is if the project has many kinds of work to be done that one type of contractor can not do say: eletrical, framing,mason,exavator,etc.
Take a new bank or drug store, the drug store company ask General Contractors to bid on the new store. The General Contractor ask for bids from all the sub contractors for each type of work; excavatiing is one of the sub types of work that needs to be done. Then the GC puts all those numbers together plus his work and profit and bids the new Drug store. If he gets the job to do the new drug store than you hope he calls you to do your part, say the excavating. But just because your price was the best and the GC got the job doesn't mean you get the work, he could give the excavating work to who ever he wants to at the time. This process can take 12 months before the ground is even broken. All parties benefit if you get the work, make money on the job, and get paid by General Contractor, who doesn't pay you your part until he gets paid from the drug store.

As far as the software goes, you need every tool to make your bid as low as possible but still make the profit you want. You need to know cuts and fills, trucking cost, plumbing cost, how much of each and one math mistake can put you in the poor house. You sign a contract to do the work for "x" in "x" amount of time or you don't get paid. All this is why many Excavators do not do commercial work, but many do because if all goes well the size of the jobs are much bigger, more money.
 
Last edited:

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Thats rough. :spaz

If I do some work I want half to start and the rest before I leave after I finish. Now, I only do a couple of small jobs when time allows but I don't wait for money. This might only benefit me because the few jobs I do are just supplemental income but I don't think I could do that for a living. I got respect for yall that do this because not only do you got to do the job but you also gotta sometimes work to get your money. If I don't get paid then I take my work back:nono . Sometimes I will trade work for work. Lets say somebody needs a lot cleared and they have a dump truck. I cleared his lot and he hauled all my rock for my 1/2 mile driveway.
 

jmac

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
740
Location
Central NY
It all depends on what you want to do and how big you want to get. I have alot of over head so I sometimes need bigger work to keep the ball rolling. Every time I buy a new machine, excavator, dump truck dozer what ever, I need more money to feed the check book. That is why it is so hard for someone to start a excavating company because of the money it takes. As a side line, say a skid steer and a pick up is not a bad way to go. In about 10 years when allot of overhead will be paid for, thats when you have allot of equity, and you have very good cash flow.
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
I don't have any overhead since I don't own any equipment...right now at least. I have the general concept of the bidding process now, thanks Jmac :thumbsup , but I guess I won't completely understand the concept unless I got into the business.
 

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
Why are you losing the jobs, are you too high or too low ???

Most of the larger companies in my area have multiple in-house estimators and they use computer programs. I have no experience with computer programs. Everyone that uses them loves them. This might be a option if you do enough bids. Good luck to you.

I've been to high. I think i need to factor in that a crew would be in one spot for a longer time and there might be more usable material or salvagable loam etc on a larger site , less mobilization etc. I am getting alot of good info on this thread , that i'm not the only one needing info on estimating practices.
 

DigDug

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
577
Location
Maine
DigDug, I bought a book that was just about estimating but found out it's geared toward BIG jobs and way over my head.

The book is Estimating excavation by Deryl Burch, about 446 pages of formula's etc.

Here's the book : http://www.amazon.com/Estimating-Excavation-Deryl-Burch/dp/0934041962 You can page through it online I guess.

Take a look at it, and if you want it I'll send it too you. No charge.(unless you want to pay the shipping)

It's still practically brand new. It's just collecting dust here.:yup

PM me if it's something you're intersted in.

I Pm'ed you. I am interested. Thanks for the help. doug
 
Top