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Estimate training

HFservicesNC

Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25
Location
Chapel Hill NC
Hi everyone I have been running a grading and clearing business for around two years now but have started to realize that I'm not very good when it comes to doing estimates. Does anyone know of any classes that would help with this or if I could go to my local community college and take classes to do with civil engineering or something along those lines that would give me a better outlook on how to provide estimates that are competitive while still making a profit.
 

terrasmooth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
83
Location
Northern Arizona USA
Hi everyone I have been running a grading and clearing business for around two years now but have started to realize that I'm not very good when it comes to doing estimates. Does anyone know of any classes that would help with this or if I could go to my local community college and take classes to do with civil engineering or something along those lines that would give me a better outlook on how to provide estimates that are competitive while still making a profit.

One thing you can do is; become proficient with a computer and the Excel spreadsheet, this is a fairly simple program that many of the fancy estimating programs are based on. It helps you become more organized and prevents many math errors. You can build some templates for different scenarios (different crews etc.)

Community colleges do have some estimating classes that are helpful... however in my area, most of them are for vertical construction, not civil. There are more variables in civil work than vertical work.
If you are able to afford a good digitizer for takeoffs, about 10-12 k , this could save you that much in one job. My preferred estimating program is HCSS with Heavy job to take your bid and turn it into a job/cost tracking electronic program. It is around 10k the last time I looked... sounds expensive but you can estimate many more jobs ACCURATELY than you can imagine if you are just using a yellow notepad. They also provide training. I have an article on estimating you may find helpful also. Good Luck:)
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
Which side of the estimates are you having trouble with, your costs of operation or the time needed to complete the jobs?
 

JD8875

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
314
Location
Harrisonville, Missouri
I'm kind of in the same boat. I do mostly residential and Ag work but I struggle with estimates as well. My issue seems to be time estimation mostly. The other thing is I know what I want to make but it seems like the price I give is crazy high, but I hardly ever lose a job which tells me I'm pretty cheap.

John
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
Best way to refine your estimates is to keep track of your costs on jobs as you do them. Log hours for a given activity, keep track of materials purchased. Then you must log the macines too as far as hours and costs to operate. Then don't forget those fixed costs too like insurance, cell phone, licenses and the like. Everybody's costs are going to be different. You have to get a handle on your own.
 

JDOFMEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,074
Location
SoCal
I'm with Greg.
The best way to learn estimating is by first learning to track the accurate job costs.
Do motion studies to learn how to figure production. Remember when you are studying the production that your job will not run at 100% efficiency. You can get a maximum production for the given task, and then there are delays such as slow start up in the morning, restroom breaks, slow start after lunch, stopping to discuss "the plan", and any number of other reasons that work stops or even slows. Added over the course of a day, it may be nearly an hour lost.

As Greg says, everyone's cost is different, and I add everyone's production is different. You must learn to estimate what you and your crew can do with what you have for equipment. It does no good to figure out how to do it faster with bigger or newer equipment if that is not what you will be using. One problem I had was estimating the entire job based on my production. That worked fine on small jobs where I was the only one doing the work, but when you grow and add hired help to the crew, none of them work as diligently as you will, and the production shows that. You need to learn what your crew can do, and bid that way.

Learning to track work produced daily and daily cost is the best way to learn to estimate. All the fancy software in the world will not help if you do not get the two basics of cost and production figured out. It takes some extra effort to measure up what was completed daily, and then figure the cost to go with that production, but you are operating blind if you do not do it.
You could be going broke on a job, and not find out until you run out of money to complete the work. It is too late to change it by then. If you track things daily, you can see that you are falling behind in time to take steps to correct the problem before the problem sinks you.

Good luck.
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
Good post Jerry, money can be made or lost at the desk, like Jerry says you have to know what production you are capeable of. Seems like there is always something to trip you up for example: we had a D6 rented last year and the turbo locked up so it was down 2 days, during that 2 days the scrapers were out of ripped cut so production slowed, the turbo did'nt cost me anything but the lost production by not having a ripper did. Long story short you will not make max production for the duration of a large job so keep it in mind when bidding and go with a realistic average. My weakness is finish work estimating, I can hit the bulk dirt usually to the day but I'm always short on finish time and we go over what I bid. There are lots of ways to boost production, 1) have the equipment ready to go at work time, I've been around outfits that fumble around in the morning fueling and checking equipment over for 45 min before they get going, add that up over the duration of the job and it's expensive. 2) Job radios will save you alot of time and money 3) limit mistakes they will cost you 3 fold 4) Operators need to understand the job to be efficient, it's worth the time to explain.
 

Kman9090

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
273
Location
Everywhere
DPete hit the nail on the head, a lot of companies go over on finishing. Its not all the estimators fault really, sometimes its break downs, on the job mistakes, or a punch list from hell from the owner. Best way to really learn is to estimate a job and then go out in the field and do it. You'll be able to realise where you can cut cost and where you can't. All in all you will never be perfect, and sometimes the company that got the bid and was cheaper then you is a good thing for you and a costly mistake for them.
 
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