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Early motor scraper

Discussion in 'Scrapers' started by Scrub Puller, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  2. seatwarmer

    seatwarmer Senior Member

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  3. seatwarmer

    seatwarmer Senior Member

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    Hi Scrub

    On reading the whole article above, my conclusion is that beast is in the UK
     
  4. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . seatwarmer Yes mate, I think is definitely in the UK, but study that "scraper" for a moment.

    It is quite a large machine and has no draught arms as we know them, it appears some arrangement on that tower must control the depth of cut.

    The main thing that interests me though is that engine on the back. It is furnished with a crank handle and being in the UK indicates it is probably a Gardiner diesel some of which could be hand started . . . but look at all the pipes, typical of late 'fifties early 'sixties low pressure hydraulics.

    The diamond pattern tread on flotation tyres leads me to believe they are not intended for traction . . . leading to the conclusion the hydraulics are driving some form of elevator/auger loading mechanism.

    if so I suggest this is a very early example of the self loading concept. I don't understand the slab sided construction of the bowl either . . . no external stiffening and that apron arrangement is way beyond my ken . . . tct tractors or any of you blokes in the UK have any suggestions?

    Can't pick the tractor either, the tank looks narrow gutted for a Cat.


    Cheers
     
  5. WabcoMan

    WabcoMan Senior Member

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    I think its one of Austin-Westerns scrapers from the late 30s/early 40s. They had an engine in the rear to power the hydraulic system as most track tractors of the period weren't equipped for the large pump required.
     
  6. Aussie John

    Aussie John Well-Known Member

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    Would the tractor be a Oliver Cletrack? I enlarged the photo and looking at the tracks, the front track idlers and rollers all have large external flanges. Looking at the house in the background, it does not have the English styling of the era. I rekon that this photo was taken somewhere in the USA. I wonder how the hydraulics were remotely controlled from the tractor?
     
  7. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    Scrubpuller, I can recall hearing a few verbs on self powered scraper units, one old driver used to always try and surprise me with his antic's and knowledge ( The Late Gordon Richards) he had been around every iron beast to ever move an once of muck, including the Needel Hitch for pulling scrapers, but to ask him about this unit in the snap I might have to wait a few years??? the engine would Not be a "Gardner" if it was built in the U.K. but more probably a Dorman or Leyland, the Dorman engine being my first thought, the tractor in parts looks to be a lot like a TD18 but the front idlers?? plus the single top roller sort of destroys this line, some years ago possibly 30 of them I fitted a new clutch into a Cletrack tractor that had 2 sprockets on each track, the engine was a Herc' with a foot operated clutch pedal (I think) as for size of tractor it was around the D6 ish' stamp, the house looks like something you would find in the U.K. at this time period as there was not enough Caves to go around.
    tctractor

    p.s. A good pick and thank you for your effort to post it for our pleasure, well done that man.
     
  8. Cmark

    Cmark Senior Member

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    I don't know about the tractor n box, but I'm going to call non-UK on the house. Tall narrow windows and a porch with (maybe?) latticework, and does anyone think timber construction?
     
  9. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . tctractors. Woops!! . . . in my #4 post the dreaded spell check or clumsy fingers inserted an "i" in the venerable name . . . how say you Sir that such magnificence of execution and design as (say) a six LW would not have been installed in such a chariot?

    (big grin with just a little bit of tongue in cheek)

    Okay while we are on identification . . . if you open the link provided by seatwarmer you will see that the machine probably is in the UK . . . but what are the tractors pulling scoops being loaded by the Lima shovel. Those three intakes/exhausts whatever are unfamiliar to me.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  10. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    Scrubbie, I love it jolly well done I say as I am well known for crap spelling, on the house thing well my old pit has 10 ft ceilings in the rooms with massive windows, without being a total nerd there is housing with a similar style look to them in my local town I cannot see any non U.K. thing about them, the first house I ever bought was also very similar in style, it had stable style doors and sash windows that were as above in size and form, so I am going to say the house is a U.K. type home with the slide up or slide down section windows.
    On to the engine thing that is powering the scraper, well in the Seatwarmer thing there is another very similar power unit stuck on the back of some other contraption with a very apt starting handle dangling from a rad cowl that looks all to like the thing on the scraper,I sort of thought I could see those little screw on plates saying Gardner near the top of each cylinder, but I also know that Dorman made a power pack looking like this and it was hand start or air start, I used to see a welding plant started by hand with rope pulled by 2 men hooked onto the start handle that looked crack on like the pack on the scraper etc, Gardner engines were not common to find fitted to mobile plant that I recall, I cannot realy think of ever spotting a Gardner engine getting a life of Hell on any construction equipment other than elec/generators but I am known for my lack of brains, the Dorman was an engine with an S.A.E. rate for running non stop with a load, even the fuel filters could be changed without stopping the engine, so this engine builder was targeting a use in construction type equipment with their Heavy Oil motors. tctractors

    p.s. try A.C. on the tractors
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  11. Scrub Puller

    Scrub Puller Senior Member

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    Yair . . . tctractors. I too noted those little plates on the cylinders and then decided the injection pump thingy was all wrong for a Gardner.

    What you say about Gardner's is true of course, I don't think I have ever seen one in earthmoving plant . . . other than in smallish draglines. Stationary installations were their forte, generators, compressors, pumps and of course their mainstay was marine.

    For a while I looked after a rather lovely after wheelhouse ex Whitby fisher that some crazy Pom motored out from England. It ended up in North Queensland . . . 4LW main set at 50 hp at 1200RPM and swinging a six foot prop through a 4:1 box a beautiful, efficient, unstressed piece of kit.

    And then of course the trucks.

    For a while I drove a Foden with an 8LW and that old girl seemed to do six miles to the gallon loaded with sixty tons of railway line or returning empty. Fifty years later the current crop of Volvo's and Kenworths hauling a similar weight of cattle from the yards built with that railway line (on the same but improved dirt roads) don't seem to do much better . . . the difference of course is when they hit the blacktop, they are capable of higher speeds.

    You are probably right in calling Allis Chalmers on the tractors . . . the three intake exhaust thing had me slewed. The HD19 with the 6-110 Jimmy had two intakes above the bonnet and then I found this . . .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Vo5Lx4VZ0

    Have not had time to look into it but it sure as hell isn't a Jimmy. I assume the LO stands for "light oil" and something flashed up somewhere it was a low compression engine with petrol start . . . does any one have any ideas?

    . . . . and of course the other thing is I should be allowed to go way off topic on my own thread. (big grin)


    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  12. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    S.P. the little Casterton show is 1 good show and well worth the visit I love it as its the rare stuff only that is allowed on the site, the A.C. is being driven by steve Kitching and I think the engine is a Buda??? L.O. is not something I know about as all Diesel engines in the U.K. are called Heavy oil engines even Land Rovers had this fact scripted into the log books, I cannot think of any crane(crawler style) that was fitted with a Gardner power unit as factory fit? I am sorry to hear your Foden was out of tune as it should have been managing around the 8 mpg mark running light with only 60 ton on board, I also have spent many wasted days piloting Fodens and Scammells around the U.K. with nasty loads to deal with, 1 Foden 150 tonner had the turn down hubs giving it a top speed of around 32 mph, but to take it past about 28mph would set up a shake in the cab that was not very comfortable, this truck was fitted with the Cummins Big Cam and the 12 speed Foden box with an oil cooler unit.