Dump truck options.

[Black71gp]

Dump truck build?

Currently looking to upgrade trucks, my old 88 Mack single axle is on its last leg, and impossible to find parts for.

I've been looking for mid 90's tandem trucks.

I don't think I need a tri axle for what I do. Mostly septics, we have a good hauling company here and can beat up their trucks. I need it to haul equipment around and occasional load of sand

In Mi here we can only gross 48k in a tandem dump, 57 in a tri.

I found a 92 l9000 , 3406 425hp engine, 13 speed. Jake, lockers, clean truck, needs paint. 16k front with 385 tires. 40 rears, walking beam rear.

However the truck is a tractor only, guy also has a 13' bed for it, and air operators exchanged pto, I would need valves, and a few little things and attach the box to the truck. And build a rear hitch plate. And paint the box and truck.

Everything else I have been finding is 12k fronts with little tires, and 300hp 10 speed trucks. Which I do not think would work great for a truck.
Here is the truck and box





Like I said needs paint, and work to attached, for how the tractor is speced, seems like would be everything I want in a dump. I'm not looking for a 16-18' tri axle long truck. I do tighter jobs and a truck that is a little shorter would work best for me and I can still haul 13 ton on it which would be about my legal max here.

Any thoughts or I'm crazy?

Thanks

 

[FWD]

That would make a good truck for limited use. I have a 1990 LT9000 (not the set back axle) with 3406 350 horse and an 8LL. It has a 14.5' box and 16 front and 40 rear on walking beam. It's a good truck and gets around well. The one you have should get around even better. They are getting old, but Fords are good trucks and if taken care of will go a long time.
FWD

 

[farmerlund]

To me the key is the condition of the truck. I have built 3 dumps out of highway trucks over the years. If the truck is in good shape it would make a nice truck for you it looks like.

I have always double framed the trucks I have done from the front axel back. Some guys don't but I think its a good idea.

Keep us posted.

 

[DGODGR]

There a re a lot of things to consider with that tractor. First, I think that it has great specs. But it looks like a short wheel base. While this is great for maneuverability (especially with a set back axle) it can present some weight issues if it's too short. You said that you can gross 48k# in MI on three axles (steer axle plus the tandem). This may be true but every state that I have ever run my trucks in also specifies an axle spread for you to obtain maximum GVW. This is often referred to as a "bridge gap". It is the distance between the steer axle C/L and the C/L of the tandems. IMHO a truck with a 13' box may not be quite long enough to have the optimum bridge gap. You also have a set back front axle and this will reduce the wheel base even further. I apologize if you have already done your homework on this but you didn't mention it when you made your GVW comment.
IMO the Cat 3406 w/425 hp is a great engine. A 13 speed transmission is also great but not necessary. Vocational trucks will often come with 8 speeds (and much less HP for that matter). The 13 speed should allow (not sure if I have seen every brand of 13 speed ever offered) you to "split" the upper gears. This will probably only come in handy on long, steep grades (note sure that it matters much to a "Gonian", or "Gander", since MI is not known for it's mountainous terrain [here is my attempt at some humor]). Otherwise it will probably only be used as an overdrive in top gear. The only downside I see to it is that it will almost double the cost of replacement (over a 10 spd) when the time comes. The walking beam (assume Hendrickson) is a great dump struck suspension. It will articulate well (keep traction on uneven ground) and is very stout. About the only maintenance issue with them is the main bushing. When it wears out you will likely have to have it replaced professionally. On the upside to that is that it is a very common suspension and there are actually service providers that specialize in them, they are often mobile (at least this was the case in So. Cal. when I lived there), and it is not hugely expensive. One downside to the walking beam is ride quality. If the beam is under a spring stack the ride quality will be a little better. The whole "ride quality" issue is really only apparent while unloaded. If I was driving the truck I would consider adding a cab suspension. You will also need to modify the brake system to a "truck" system. This usually requires a different tractor protection valve and the addition of another set of "maxis" (pronounced maxiies) to the back. A "truck" must be able to hold it's GVW, on a certain grade, with the parking brakes. A "tractor" does not because it isn't loaded unless it has a trailer connect to it (which usually gives it the additional parking brakes required to keep it from rolling on said grade).You have not said how many miles, or what condition the truck is in. If I were buying a used truck, I would spend a few hours crawling around under it, or hire a competent mechanic to do so. I would also strongly consider oil samples from all compartments (be sure to drive it and warm up everything before sampling). Tire and brake condition should also be considered. Neither are cheap!
The bed looks good from the one photo (as does the truck) but I would be concerned about the floor. I would even want to see the bottom of the floor. Does the gate latch work or is it rusted to the point of seizure? What is the condition of the hoist seals? You mentioned a PTO ("and air operators exchanged PTO") so I assume you know you will need one , and a reservoir, to operate the hoist/lift system for the bed. Air cylinders for the gate latch would be nice but not necessary. I would also want to convert the tarp to electric or air if I was the owner.
Farmerlund mentioned double framing. I have often heard this mentioned, and I'm sure it has merit, (it would be a consideration for me if I was ordering a new truck -or maybe a wider C channel frame member), I think this would be very expensive (pretty much have to dismantle the truck) and I don't think it worth the $ if retro-fitting. My rationale is: That I have not personally broken a frame (and I even operate extended frame dump trucks); Expense; A rigid frame can be at a traction disadvantage if not coupled to a rear axle system that does not have good articulation (would probably not be an issue with a walking beam as is the case here).
The only drawback that I can see to buying the Ford is similar to what you mentioned about your Mack. Some parts may be exclusive to the Ford and difficult to locate and/or you will pay a premium at a Ford dealer. Said parts will be in the cab (obviously) and maybe things like the alternator, steering box, etc. If the condition of the truck is good, and the price is right (along with considering all of the above) I would seriously consider that truck. As you said it is speced well for a dump truck with the possible exception of the wheel base (when considering bridge gap).
Good luck.

 

[RonG]

What is there about your Mack that you can't find parts for.Where are you looking?Ron G

 

[Black71gp]

Thanks for the thoughts. I went and looked at the truck today and spent a lot of time in and under and around it. It is clean, way cleaner than anything else I have been looking at up here in the last 6 months.

To address some of the questions. Between front axle and first rear wheel is 12' so should be fine for bridge law,
Front axle may be more than 16k, tag in the door faded but it has dual steering boxes. So that's a plus.

Engine started good and warmed up and little to no blow by. Truck has 404k on it. 13 speed shifted well in all gears and Jake worked. I know it's more than needed but better than the 10 I see in most tractors and even a lot of dump trucks.

Walking beam was tight, I had him make sharp turns while watching the bushings. Truck has air ride seat and air ride cab.
As far as brakes and tractor control valve, looked the same as on my other truck and would just need to run the lines to the rear. Has separate trailer and truck air supply.

No major oil leaks, just some accumulation around front seal and one side of the pan.

Bed was pretty decent for how bad the paint is. Comes with the tank and hoist in one unit attached to the front. No idea on seals that's gonna be a guessing game. The rear gate seemed to move will need air run to it.

Bottom of the box was wavy, and 99% of every truck I have seen is, but cross members were very straight and solid. No holes in the floor or no major dents anywhere. It will need a new tarp which I will want electric for anyway.

Truck is double framed to just over the rear axle. So should be just fine for adding a dump.

As far as parts. The Mack had less than 500 or so made of my style, the l9000 was produced for a long long time with many many trucks on the road so finding stuff shouldn't be near as bad. Attached are some photos.

I would need to notch the frame to attach the dump hinge. Install pto and pump, which comes with the truck, air operated, just need the switches and valves.

And build a hitch plate and a lot of paint to clean it all up. And re route the exhaust.

 

[Black71gp]

Also some one added a side hinge to the box so if you wanted. You could open it as a side barn door style gate which could be handy.

 

[td25c]

Looks good . I was going to suggest looking at trucks set up already & compare cost of the conversion .
http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=5001101


If you like it and the price is rite then go for it .

 

[Black71gp]

That truck is on my watch list. Lol

12k front, ten speed road Trans and 100 less horse... Make it a little less desirable,

However price wise would end up possibly close to the same. After paint and welding to attach everything.

I found a similar white gmc, 16k front 385 axles. 300hp cat 3306, 8ll Trans 15' box in so so shape. He wants 17 for that. Similar mileage, no Jake brake, needs paint as well, and tires and brakes are close.

Choices choices...

 

[td25c]

The White / GMC looks nice .


I went the opposite direction when I started out .

Bought a tractor / lowboy first . Then a short steel dump trailer later to haul material with .

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6096119&dlr=1&pcid=2000780175

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6839599

It worked good for my little operation . You can get in some pretty hairy places with a short dump trailer .

 

[Black71gp]

That's not a horrible idea, however I don't think I want a 50 year old dump trailer!!! Lol

 

[Black71gp]

Ok price wise.

I can't get him less than 15k on the l9000 and dump box and pto. He would give me 2000 trade for my old Mack. Plus tax, it's a small dealer guy.

The white is 17k lowest he would go. Everything else in my area is 20 plus and light duty fronts. Or a beat up tri for 20 another l9000 as well.

15 too much?

 

[td25c]

If you really like the L 9000 tractor it's probably not a bad deal . The bed looked pretty good .

Gonna mount it yourself ?

 

[td25c]

however I don't think I want a 50 year old dump trailer!!! Lol

Don't like those old school steel dumps ? We always figured after it made it 50 years it's probably good for 50 more . LOL

Have a 1961 21 foot Trailmobile steel dump that looks allot like the Dorsey in truckpaper . I like the short sides on them as sometimes we load with a skid loader or farm tractor .

Very stable when dumping .Good old trailer .

Newer version of it , http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=3455751

 

[Black71gp]

Don't like those old school steel dumps ? We always figured after it made it 50 years it's probably good for 50 more . LOL

Have a 1961 21 foot Trailmobile steel dump that looks allot like the Dorsey in truckpaper . I like the short sides on them as sometimes we load with a skid loader or farm tractor .

Very stable when dumping .Good old trailer .

Newer version of it , http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=3455751

Hmm good point. You do have me thinking for sure...

I'll do all the work but the actually welding, I have a big mig, but would assume you would want that tig welded? Same with the backing plate for the hitch. Paint and hooking everything else up I'll take care of,

 

[old-iron-habit]

Even has a air ride cab. Looks like it will make a nice smaller truck with good tow capabilities. Especially of you can do most of the mounting of the box yourself.

 

[td25c]

Hmm good point. You do have me thinking for sure...

I'll do all the work but the actually welding, I have a big mig, but would assume you would want that tig welded? Same with the backing plate for the hitch. Paint and hooking everything else up I'll take care of,

I stick weld most of the time on projects like that . 6011 & 7018 rods .

I didn't like the way my Low boy sat behind the KW after mounting the fifth wheel plate . Lowboy sat high in the front so we cut the original gooseneck beams off & added new ones on top to correct the problem .

Old school 1951 Lacrosse .

 

[DGODGR]

Ok price wise.

I can't get him less than 15k on the l9000 and dump box and pto. He would give me 2000 trade for my old Mack. Plus tax, it's a small dealer guy.

The white is 17k lowest he would go. Everything else in my area is 20 plus and light duty fronts. Or a beat up tri for 20 another l9000 as well.

15 too much?

What does your '88 Mack look like (what condition)? I think the price for the I9000 is good but I'm not excited about the trade value for your existing dump truck. Is it a dump truck? I'm not in your area but that just seems very low to me ($2,000.00?).

 

[DGODGR]

Hmm good point. You do have me thinking for sure...

I'll do all the work but the actually welding, I have a big mig, but would assume you would want that tig welded? Same with the backing plate for the hitch. Paint and hooking everything else up I'll take care of,

I think older trailers usually come with wedge brakes. Some even had them into the eighties. I wouldn't be too excited about wedge brakes.

 

[Black71gp]

My dump looks like this, runs and drove good, however the coolant filter housing? Or something like that cracked and is so rusted on i am having a hard time getting it off, and then finding replacement is not gonna be easy. The truck has a lot of blow by, major smoke on cold mornings starting. It's getting to the point of very unreliable.
I did put new tires and radiator in it, which I could swap tires and at least have four new ones on a newer truck. I might list on cl for four grand and see if I get any takers

Starting to get pretty rusty around the cab, as well.