Dual shield rookie

[Toddgarage]

Starting to thaw out a bit and it’s time to fabricate for the upcoming year. I want to learn dual shield but need a little advice.
Machine: Forney 270 mig
Gas bottle options: 100%co2, 75%Ar/25%co2 or 100%Ar.

My local welding supply shop said dual shield is best for heavy industry and he doesn’t carry any supplies for it. I want to support my local suppliers as much as possible, but I’m probably going to buy wire online now.

Mostly going to be fabricating dump truck stuff. Tailgates, hinges, supports, brackets… welding in all positions, sometimes with metal prep… sometimes without. Ranging from 1/8 to 3/4 plate.

What is your go to wire brand for fabrication?
Do you run 100%Co2 ?
How wind tolerant is the dual shield process? Slight breeze okay..

Thank you for the advice. Trust me, I’ve watched a number of videos and gotten a decent grasp of the process.

 

[Junkyard]

Most dual shield wire is best with 75/25, I’ve even read specs calling for up to 85% Argon. Your supplier isn’t too off base with what he said. A lot of what you’re wanting to do solid wire would be preferred, especially the thinner material. Can you weld that stuff with dual shield, sure can. It’ll likely have more splatter and you’ll have the flux to clean off of it. Applications where dual shield is ideal are bucket repairs and things where you have to lay down a lot of material. For instance, I did two buckets recently and all but used up a 33# spool.

It is a bit more wind tolerant than solid wire. I have done similar work with it because it’s all I had or I was too lazy to swap wire. For what you’re describing .045 would be plenty. Most of the time I use Lincoln ultracore 71a85. We used that building all the drilling tools and if that’s not a test I don’t know what is lol.

 

[Toddgarage]

There is a long list of dirty fabrication and repairs to make as well.
I wanted to try the process out and see if there is any gains in production.
Do you find that dual shield can be an all position operation? I know that chasing the flux puddle can sometimes be a challenge…
Thanks for the reply. Going to buy a spool and see what happens.

 

[digger doug]

There is a long list of dirty fabrication and repairs to make as well.
I wanted to try the process out and see if there is any gains in production.
Do you find that dual shield can be an all position operation? I know that chasing the flux puddle can sometimes be a challenge…
Thanks for the reply. Going to buy a spool and see what happens.

There is all position wire, I was shown how to run it in the shop, but don't do much welding anymore, it is/was great stuff.
Esab 777 IIRC

 

[Junkyard]

It’ll do most of them. Vertical will take a bit of practice, I have the best luck downhill and moving quick. Some of the specific types of dual shield will handle dirty better than others. You might research that a bit. If I’m dealing with dirty I pull out the 6010 rod.

 

[digger doug]

I don't think that machine will do 3/4".....

 

[Jonas302]

We use 7100 ultra .045 100% co2 it does everything we need it to and runs pretty easy From crusher repairs to exhaust work if I dont feel like changing the spool When conditions are right and you can crank the power up its fun to lay down The more wind you have the harder it is to get a good weld, solid of course doesn't tolorate any wind

 

[Junkyard]

I don't think that machine will do 3/4".....

Not in a single pass but I’m not aware of many situations I’d want to. Bevels and multiple passes.

 

[Toddgarage]

That machine is surprisingly strong. It won’t single pass 3/4, but it gets close…

Good info gentlemen. I’ll get someone in my shopping cart and give it a try.

 

[digger doug]

Not in a single pass but I’m not aware of many situations I’d want to. Bevels and multiple passes.

I figured on multi pass, but do you think that machine can burn the puddle into the sides of that thick plate ?

 

[Toddgarage]

It’s multiple passes without a question. But I’ve watched a guy just fry a puddle and roast the nozzle right off trying.

Honestly, it will do a nice job on 1/4” thick steel. Very impressive with the green machine. Not as fancy as a new Miller or Lincoln, but works for general fabrication and repair. (Plus the hummm of the transformer is nice.)

 

[Junkyard]

I figured on multi pass, but do you think that machine can burn the puddle into the sides of that thick plate ?

Absolutely at 270 amps, assuming that’s what the model numbers means. Probably a 28v machine, .045 wire and a good bevel you’d have no problem getting good penetration. My shop machine is a 250 amp, 28v and I’ve yet to find a properly prepared joint I couldn’t weld.

 

[MarcusZ1967]

Hobart XL-525 80/20
Curtis at CEE

Some reason Utube wouldn't let me post the vid....

:banghead

 

[Tyler d4c]

Absolutely at 270 amps, assuming that’s what the model numbers means. Probably a 28v machine, .045 wire and a good bevel you’d have no problem getting good penetration. My shop machine is a 250 amp, 28v and I’ve yet to find a properly prepared joint I couldn’t weld.

We been doing it all with a sp200 for years never had trouble yet like you said proper joint prep. We have always used 3/64 self shielding wire with it for heavy work. Looks like a 3/32 welding rod popping our of the gun

 

[Junkyard]

Agreed, I recently upgraded my setup and can run 1/16 for the bucket jobs and man it looks huge after running so much .045.

 

[JLarson]

We run a good bit of Lincoln Outershield 71M, good all around and I can get .035, .045 and .052 in small spools for suitcase machines, also dual qualified for 100% CO2 or mix.

As far as wind if we're doing any serious outdoor work we run Innershield, I can do a lot of damage with .068 nr-212 on buckets, booms, plate structure.

 

[Old Doug]

I used alot of dual shield welding on RR cars . I had never even heard of it till i showed up for a interview weld test. The foreman was there watching me try to do an up hill weld . After he said slow down i was fine. I think we started of with .045 and ended up with a lot bigger stuff. I was welding air piping on the cars it worked but regular wire would have made life easyer. That dual shield didnt like paint at all.

 

[Tyler d4c]

I used alot of dual shield welding on RR cars . I had never even heard of it till i showed up for a interview weld test. The foreman was there watching me try to do an up hill weld . After he said slow down i was fine. I think we started of with .045 and ended up with a lot bigger stuff. I was welding air piping on the cars it worked but regular wire would have made life easyer. That dual shield didnt like paint at all.

I swear dual sheild doesn't like paint dirt high tide or contry music playing Nothing but holes and worm tracks some days

 

[Old Doug]

I swear dual sheild doesn't like paint dirt high tide or contry music playing Nothing but holes and worm tracks some days

I was welding pipe you would have to weld most of it stop chip flux were you started and stopped then finish the weld.

 

[Welder Dave]

Several good brands of E71T-1, Lincoln, Hobart, Esab, etc. All have good reviews so it's mostly personal preference. The 71 means all position. Will run smoother with an argon mix but some will work with C25 or straight CO2. .045" would be a good size but watch your duty cycle. Steel needs to be clean. You could probably weld down to 1/8" if you turned it down and had short welds. Typically I wouldn't use it on less than 1/4". Even then because it's a hot fast process you need to think more about distortion. Vertical up takes some practice. You have to move quicker and basically just do a continuous weave side to side while moving up. You don't want to really pause on the sides like you might with 7018 stick. 7018 can be done in a continuous weave too. Not recommended for vertical down. Anything I want to do vertical down I use 6010 stick or solid wire Mig. Nothing else will have much strength or penetration. Biggest problem I've had with dual-shield is sometimes you get porosity or worm tracks for no apparent reason.