Drainage

[Willie B]

I have a side hill meadow perhaps a 7% grade. By pushing soil from the upper side to the lower I can bring perhaps an acre to near level. Soil is very fine sand, with thin top soil. Depth varies, but is generally shallow. Best I can figure, the deepest soil is at the upper edge in the tree line. Vermonters are very protective of maple trees, that's all the trees at the upper edge.
It rains frequently here. Several days after a rain it gets muddy. My theory is the shallow depth to ledge gives no opportunity to drain down. Water is trapped above the ledge in the sand. Up hill there is 100 yards of similar soil, heavily forested.

The best solution would be some sort of drainage mat. Strip to ledge, lay this imaginary product, cover it with the soil. I know of no such product, I wish I did.

I have considered exposing ledge at the upper edge of the meadow, swailing soil to drain off both ends, around a house site.

What would you do?

Willie

 

[Planedriver]

Is it possible to pull in socked drain tile?

 

[Shimmy1]

Some pictures of the site might be helpful. I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing it.

 

[Willie B]

I'll try to get pictures this weekend. Digital camera pictures are a real ordeal to post. Cell phone pictures can be Emailed, then posted. That's a whole lot easier. Essentially, it's a hillside coming down from the top of a ridge 1000' long. 300feet from the top of the ridge forest opens up into a meadow. An old farm road runs near level lengthwise through it parallel to the side hill, and ridge. From tree line, to road is about 150 feet. From top of ridge to road is maybe 30My plan is to put a few low boulder retaining walls along the edge of the road, and a series of three terraces to serve instead of a single tall retaining wall. I will bring soil from the upper edge of the meadow, and carry it to the retaining walls to give a 75 x 400 foot flat house site. a Ledge undulates, in fact the sedimentary calcium carbonate has folds in the stone. Test holes place ledge at varying depth, I believe its pitch varies, but is always pitching downhill. My theory is that because of ledge, rain water can't drain down. I've dug a few test holes before. Depending how recently it has rained, they either fill with water or don't. For at least a week after a rainy day it's muddy.

Soil is very fine sand below thin topsoil. I'm concerned socked drain line will get its sock clogged with silt, and won't let water in. Another thought is to expose ledge along the upper edge, creating a gentle slope to each end of this house site. This might allow the majority of water from the acreage uphill from the meadow to spill off without soaking into the thin soil.

Another option is lay filter fabric on ledge, put drain tile on, and cover with enough crushed stone to cover the tile. I'd fold the fabric over top before covering it with sandy soil.

Willie

 

[Planedriver]

Not knowing how many acres you are talking about and the intended use for the whole parcel makes this a little difficult. You could try contacting the NRCS for planning assistance. The help (if you can get it) is free and depending on other factors your project may qualify for a grant. Take a look at the link below.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/vt/programs/

 

[Willie B]

of elevation

Not knowing how many acres you are talking about and the intended use for the whole parcel makes this a little difficult. You could try contacting the NRCS for planning assistance. The help (if you can get it) is free and depending on other factors your project may qualify for a grant. Take a look at the link below.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/vt/programs/

Thanks, but this being VT, government involvement in every case means prohibition. Planting posies in my front lawn requires an environmental impact study, a hearing, and a permit process. Oh, I forgot the archaeologists study to see if there are any Native American artifacts. After $50,000. in legal fees, the permit would be denied.

Willie

 

[Planedriver]

I get it. Absent that option. You can glean a lot of soil information etc. From the attached link. It's really cumbersome to use until you are familiar with it but I have found the info to be spot on. Give it a look. If you would like, I'll be happy to walk you through how to get the info you might want. PM me with a phone number and I'll help over the phone.
https://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx

 

[Raildudes dad]

I'll vouch for the websoilsurvey site. Very good and helpful info. I use it at work. It is not user intuitive (user friendly). Play with it a bit before you give planedriver a call

 

[wosama931b]

OK I would take a good look at where the water goes and try to make the flat spot work with the natural drainage ?
You can install a silt fence to prevent any erosion control problem until you get grass growing , and another silt fence
on the lower area to stop any runoff . the silt fence is not hard to install , and if the county guys will be a little happy .
In the state of Virginia you have to get a lic. RLD, to move 2,500 sf area or more , its about control of erosion .
Good luck , sam.

 

[Willie B]

In this case erosion is not a concern. Below this is a small kettle pond I cleaned out 15 years ago. Any silt ends up there. I scoop it out now and again, using the silt as topsoil on other property. No evident streams ever happen here. there is little uphill from this. In the Otter Creek Valley I presume glaciers gave us the shape several ridges run near level north/south I'm backed up to one. Top of the ridge is the property line.

 

[wosama931b]

Down south we sometimes get lots of rain , my back yard looks like a lake , or streaming past with about 8 inches deep . I have seen this many times , so I do think that the silt fence helps to maintain the site . and they will help to keep the dirt from going down the hill . Sam .

 

[Willie B]

I live two miles from here measuring "as a crow flies" I never knew I had it so good. This neighborhood was Brooklyn, or Brooklyn Road. Once there were 5 water powered mills in a row. After the '27 flood they moved the river. Then in 1980 the Feds moved it farther. In Irene 2011 the 1980 Federal built barrier that formed a 90 degree turn failed when a series of beaver ponds on the mountain upstream went out like so many dominoes. My barn floor was one minute 13' higher than the bottom of a dry brook bed, 5 minutes later it was covered with 5' of swirling water.

Here, soil is so porous, I can dump a five gallon pail of water, it disappears instantly with the sound of it going down a drain. The brook 100 yards from the house disappears in very dry summer weather, although 1/2 mile upstream, it lives up to it's name; Roaring Brook. The stream disappears underground. One can hear water, and dig down a couple feet to find it.

Two miles away, good drainage is not the way things work! This area is elevated maybe 100 feet of elevation above Otter Creek. The human mind would presume water would run down hill. That is not the case.

Willie