Doosan 250-3 Regen

[Tony Wells]

Gentlemen,
I am seeking additional information on a particular (and peculiar it seems) RTL. It's a DL250-3. From what I understand, if the need for regen is stalled by operator to 120%, it cannot be forced by the normal procedure. I have made that attempt unsuccessfully to this point, so either it is at the intervention level, or I am not getting the proper procedure to force the regen. So, is there a way to determine if the percentage is too high, or is there a firm way known to execute a forced regen that I am not seeing?
What exactly happens if it goes too long? Is it time to pull, open and vat the elements in the reaction chambers? Is there a defeat method to force regen by another means?
Thoughts appreciated!


PS: I posted this in the wrong subforum, and have requested it to be moved here. That has not been done yet, so the other may simply be deleted. I reposted it here.

 

[old timer]

If that is a Doosan DL250-3, make sure the machine is at least at 170F, the park brake enabled, hydraulics disabled, and the machine is around 800RPM (low idle) before you press and hold the regen switch for around 8 seconds then release. It should idle up within 2-8 seconds. Don't touch anything or the machine will kick out of regen mode.

Usually a DPF filter does not need cleaning until around 6-7000 hours.

Most of the issues I have seen are the operator doesn't have the idle low enough (auto idle must be engaged) set in the dash, or the temps are not high enough.
If you cannot get the machine temps up, buy a -5 Doosan thermostat, they are set for a higher temp. I live in Canada, that solves most of the regen issues up here.

IF it does not go into regen, the best thing is to get a tech out with DDT/DPF program on a laptop.

You can check your own codes by pressing the up button and the menu buttons at the same time on the dash, left of the steering wheel (up and menu are the 2 rockers one on top of the other) Press and hold till a menu pops up, then release. (that might take a few tries) Navigate to current failures and there are your codes. If you are seeing a DPM failure error, have to fix those first. Again you need a laptop to troubleshoot. Only way to delete the codes is with a laptop. (I'm starting to sound like a broken record here)

Safety first, ONLY regen where there is NO CHANCE of anything lighting up around the machine, I have seen tip temps over 500F

Hope this helps.

 

[Tony Wells]

Thanks, Old Timer, for the reply. I've read instructions similar to yours. I believe I've followed them. The only fuzzy area is exactly where/what the hydraulics disable switch is. The switch markings aren't exactly clear to me on this machine. I have the machine alone inside a large concrete building away from anything flammable, so fire is not a concern at all. Others have tried this outside with the same (non)results.

Alll temp, rpm requirements, etc. are met. The only "fishy" thing I see is maybe nothing, but I'll mention it. When setting the park brake, the indicator lamp comes on, but only for a second or two. If there is a fault there, and the onboard computer is reading that as an input, it may not see the brake as set. The brake does function despite the light not on.

I don't have anything more than a Diesel Laptop w/offroad package. I don't believe it will interface with the Doosan, so I may end up having them out. Their help has been a little disappointing, so I would rather avoid that if possible. But, they have to make a living too.

I'll try to get a code read. That I have not done at this point. Monday. We are down to 3 loaders, no spare. Would be good to have this one back up. Runs great otherwise.

 

[old timer]

Hi Tony.
The pilot disable (hydraulic lock) switch is in the right side switch panel, should be the first one of the inside line of switches. Try the switch, if you have no hydraulics, good to go!

As for the park brake, most -3 machines have a starter interloc from the factory, should not start if the park brake is off (ECU controlled). The ECU gets that signal for the light from a pressure simple switch. I have seen that bypassed sometimes.

If you can, search the onboard codes, If you post the results it will go a long way to getting it solved.

There is one trick I have used on -3 excavators, warm the machine up and get it ready for regen. Shut the machine down and turn off the battery switch for 1 minute. turn the battery switch on, start the machine, once the idle is down, press the regen button for 5-8 seconds, it might go.

When the ECU is switched off (battery switch) it sometimes takes 1 or 2 minutes to recheck the emissions system. Once the ECU has a signal to regen, it ignores the soot level in the DPF. Problem is, if you have a DPM error (metering unit, doser etc) it will rev up but not burn, or not rev up at all.

As for the dealer coming out, yah everybody has to eat, but success is the metric we should all be judged by. There are resources that the Doosan/Develon dealers can get. If you can get the dash codes out I can likely point you right to the problem, but the dealer will have to come out to confirm the repair and delete the codes.
It would be great if your laptop would communicate, much easier.

Really hope this helps!

 

[Tony Wells]

Thanks again! I'll have a go at it in the morning. I'll post any codes I find, and go from there. I was not aware of the park brake interlock, so that should be telling. By memory (ha!) I don't recall having to set the brake. Most of our operators aren't in the habit of setting the brake, TBH.

We keep the battery switch off when not in use. Sort of policy around here. It's a green waste/wood grinding/chipping/screening operation, so lots of fire potential. Most of it leaves as compost or soil amendment of some sort.

I think I may attempt to relabel some of these switches.

I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing the dealer, but it is a fact that on several machines, they have come to the yard, diagnosed and claimed a repair only to have it appear they never were there, so had to be called back. More than one trip per machine. Plus they really, really seem to be busy. Maybe they are, or are understaffed, but 2-3 weeks to make a service call? Hmmm

Thank you once again for the additional tips!

 

[Tony Wells]

OK....today I spent a little time with the machine. First problem was that I could not get it warm enough. After 15 minutes at idle, ~140° F, so I ran the engine speed up for a time, and at no time did it exceed 152° F. Might be someone has removed the thermostat, or it is stuck open. Either way, that's not warm enough. I'll address that later, but for this session, I can block off part of the airflow and see what I can gain on the temperature. It may be as simple as that.

There are a total (historical) of 66 DTC's, most of them back around 2-3,000 hrs. Machine currently has a little over 9,000. There are a few recent enough to possibly be related to this problem. I took a few pics, which I will post below. If there is anything pertinent that jumps out at you, let me know. I'm not sure how these will display, but if the auto-enlarge, they will be legible. The thumbnails are pretty useless. I'll be glad to key them in manually if necessary

According the the shop manager, the laptop will clear the codes, so will get to that when this wraps up.

Thank you yet again for your insight and suggestions.

 

[old timer]

Hi Tony,
There is a lot to unpack there. First, solve the water in fuel sensor problem. Second, install a new thermostat (advise to get one for a -5 machine) Both will inhibit regen.

As for the history codes, can your laptop monitor the fuel pressure at the metering unit, egr position and exhaust temps?

 

[Tony Wells]

old timer,
I agree...there's a lot going on with this machine. One step at a time will get there though.

I'll tackle the water in fuel issue first.This machine has been sitting still for several months, so there has to be considerable condensation in the fuel tank. I'll clean the separator and try to clean the sensor. The machine seems to run fine, so I'm thinking it's not burning much water. But that obviously needs attention.

We bought 4 of these loaders together, and I always thought they were all -3's, but one is a -5. I'll go ahead with the replacement, since it isn't likely to hit the required temperature in daily operation. The operators spend too much time sitting idle and never really work the machines anyway, so the never have had an overheat problem even in this dusty environment. Guess our radiators stay clear enough. I won't be surprised to find no stat in it, but I'm told it had been regenerating on schedule earlier. The shop manager said he would get a stat for a -5 incoming. Ill be changing it.

As far as the laptop, I'm told that it will read live data streams, so if that's true then yes, I can monitor the EGR position, exhaust temp and fuel pressure. I thought I saw some of that with the onscreen monitor, but I may be mistaken. But if you mean the parameters at the time the code was set, I don't believe they are stored. I did not get time to work on it today. Other hotter fires prevailed, but took care of a couple of them at least. Perhaps tomorrow I'll get back to it. Don't know of anything really pressing. There's a crew of 7 in the shop. They stay busy, but have not been able to get anywhere with this machine. Only 2 of them have much experience. I generally get called in after they have spent enough time on things.

Thank you!

 

[old timer]

Hi Tony,

Did a dive into your codes, the 2 I would worry about is a 'EGR timeout' (likely a loose or corroded connector) and a 'metering unit' low pressure (could be some trash in a filter head, HC injector or the metering unit) Once you have the codes solved we can run thru the procedures to reset the DPF and get a regen.

And I know what you mean by fires, I always carry an extinguisher, for flames or to toss it...... LOL

 

[Tony Wells]

LOL...I carry both fuel and extinguisher, depending on what catches fire. Some I'd rather see in ashes

OK, then first I'll see about those two issues. The next couple of days are going to be hectic, I already know. But if it rains, and there is a little in the forecast, I have lights and a dry place I can park right next to this machine and work on it. I'll report any findings.

If it's true that the laptop reads live stream data, are both of these concerns able to be monitored by that means? There are a few parameters available for onscreen, but IIRC you can only display 6 at any given time. Those probably aren't even available through that though. I'll do some basic checks - V/R/L, or scope as needed prior to making any changes other than something obvious like a bad/broken connection.

 

[old timer]

LOL! I know what you mean

Got a little trick to help you out... as long as the machine has been working up till now, there is a differential pressure sensor at the DPF. Sensor has 2 hoses running to it. Fixed more than a few. Sometimes carbon will block 1 hose, false reading, ECU will signal a plugged DPF. Just a thought....fixed one this week, on a Deutz, at 200 hours of all things.

Once you get the water in fuel alert to go to history, then if you can go to EOL (end of line) test,
tell the ECU that you have cleaned or replaced the DPF (soot filter), should go to 0 grams. (gets rid of that code.
Most live data (laptop) only shows if the water in fuel code is there, don't need to monitor.
The only useful reading in the dash is engine temp (I always have that up when regening), in case I need a fire extinguisher, and I have used it!

Then try a regen, if the machine accepts it, the parameters to look at are the dosing pressure, (HC injection, metering unit should be 6+- bar) exhaust inlet temp (won't inject till 250-260F) and outlet temp (should rise to over 400F when you get a decent burn going). That is what I look at when regening.

This might be a bit too much info, When all the parameters for regen are reached (engine temp, in neutral, park brake, hydraulic lock, regen switch signal) the engine revs up, adds fuel to engine injection, and partially closes the throttle valve to warm up the exhaust. Once exhaust temps are up to 250-260, then metering unit feeds fuel to the dosing injector, then the engine revs up higher and then the outlet temps rise.
My advice would be to hook up your laptop to a working machine, regen it, look at what you can monitor, use that as a guide. I have the apprentices do that all the time.



Hoping for success!

 

[Tony Wells]

Great tip! I'll check that early on. My accomplice on this one, since I'm in no shape to be climbing all over these machines due to some osteo issues (avascular necrosis, for the curious), has gone over the machine without successfully located the water-in-fuel sensor. I'm looking to get a service manual for it, so we can at least find all the parts (lol) since we have 3 of the -3 models, but not much luck expect from the robbers. Even Scribd is changing their business model. They show that they have it (~800 pages), but the d/l link redirects to a new site named something like "SlideShow" or similar, where they demand more $$. I've been a loyal paid member of Scribd for a while, uploaded some stuff, and downloaded some very handy materials. It's rubbing me the wrong way, but with this many machines, maybe I should spring for it.

I've had similar carbon buildup interfere with a couple of Volvo hoes, so I recognize the issue. Definitely worth checking out.

Still waiting on a -5 stat, but when I get back to this machine I plan on simply blocking the airflow partially, to see if I can get it up to temp.If I can, and nothing else is killing the regen cycle, it may work. That will indicate the need for a new stat. I know user feedback is worth....well, what you pay for it, but all the operators say it was fine. Problem I see is that they can be working along normally, and next time they come into sight, heavy smoke. I didn't think the autoregen would trigger during work. Again, I'm short of docs. But I do have 2 or 3 in daily use for comparison readings. One I have is gathering dust because there was a bad pivot bearing. 3 years minimum, it's sitting on blocks, not fully split. I want the book to tackle that one. But hey, it's got low hours! (now)

Not too much information. It all goes in the melon file, where it gets sorted out, most always.

 

[old timer]

The WIF sensor is in the fuel separator bowl, primary filter, R/H side of the engine.

The machine will regen while working, as long as the temps are up.