Do you doze in first or second?

[Hjolli]

It seems that most dozer videos feature operators dozing in second gear (or at least trying to). It often seems that they have a hard time controlling the blade, making an even grade. And very often the load seems too heavy for high speed, the machine slowing more down than it would in first gear.

In my limited time as a dozer operator I often found dozing in first gave a better load and more control and also, less tiresome for the operator.

Dozing at high speed may give a better production e.g. when keeping up with dump trucks, but very often it seems pointless.

What do you experienced guys prefer?

 

[qball]

It depends on what you are doing. When I spread stone or good black dirt, I work in second. If hard cuts are on hand, I go first gear. I feel second gear on cat dozers is perfect for spreading.

 

[Nige]

If you are moving large amounts of material the mantra should be "Big Load Slow" ....... i.e get the blade full so the material is rolling off it and run in first gear. The weight on the blade also helps you to keep a grade better.

Obivously for fine finishing that's not the case.

 

[TheOldMan]

When I first saw this thread, I thought you wer talking about asleep at the wheel - getting a little nap because you were bored. That would account for the lack of control as
per Hjoli. LOL

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . I pretty much agree with Nige but if you are using a proper dig and drift technique in slots with a clean floor running flat or down grade then yes, slip it into second and make the sucker boogie . . . depends a lot on the dirt of course but I don't necessarily subscribe to the "getting a good roll/boil going in front of the blade theory".

Anytime the dirt is rolling meens the cutting edge is cutting using horsepower. A lot of dirt can be slot pushed two blade-fulls at a time on a clean hard floor without rolling.

I could set up two D8's working side by side pushing up a ring tank, one using the "good boil" method and the other "dig and drift it" and the dig and drift machine (on actual cross sections taken for payment) would out produce the other machine sometimes by a third . . . I suspect it would have also used less fuel but this was forty years ago so it was no real big deal.

Cheers.

 

[DPete]

If the conditions are right load the dozer in 1st and carry in 2nd if the push is uphill stay in 1st, you can burn alot of time in 1st if the conditions allow 2nd. Same with backing up, try to keep the work smooth enough to back in 2nd. Clean up in 2nd

 

[d9gdon]

If the conditions are right load the dozer in 1st and carry in 2nd if the push is uphill stay in 1st, you can burn alot of time in 1st if the conditions allow 2nd. Same with backing up, try to keep the work smooth enough to back in 2nd. Clean up in 2nd

I agree 100% with DPete. Sandier stuff always works better.

As just a side note, I pushed about 5-600 feet one way with a D6T this week with a semi U blade on level ground pushing moist black clay on a dam, using first to load and second to push. I have to say that any scraper would have to be faster, but I've always heard that a dozer is more efficient in that range. Seems like the break point is about 300'.

 

[Greg]

Depends on what I am doing as to first or second gear for dozing.

If it is 500 or 600 feet I will hook up a pan behind the Cat. I can't move 18 to 20 yards with the blade on a D8 in a single pass. If I had a hop as short as 100 feet would probably hook up too. Cat and Pan very efficient for short hop moving of mass quantities.

 

[vapor300]

depends on what im doing but i am usually always in 2nd gear unless im bulk pushing, bulk pushing is what i LOVE doing ill put that video of me and another buddy pushing gumbo clay, and befroe i hear critism on the video like i have a few times ill say this. Gumbo clay it is very hard to establish slots, exspecilly if your pushin side by side since 90% or better of the material stays in front of you. And some might say we are pushing to far, well thats cause we are, thats cause we are finishing a building pad that has 1ft maybe 2ft cut and is very small (soon as we start carrying the dirt the gps is turned on and the dozers are on auto), and we just got a bunch of rain that morning so it was a little wet for the 23's to get around. Some may say its not produtive, but we were pushing 4 full blades of dirt every pass and sometimes even more. And when we were done it was finished, no clean up work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlW3ALRyk_M

Recentley i have been running a 2013 6T with a vpat blade and i will tell you sand is pretty hard to grade with them, just the way they are designed the machine gets real choppy unless you have about a 1/4 blade full, so sometime when im finishing sand ill put it in 1st

 

[Diesel-Junky]

It seems that most dozer videos feature operators dozing in second gear (or at least trying to). It often seems that they have a hard time controlling the blade, making an even grade. And very often the load seems too heavy for high speed, the machine slowing more down than it would in first gear.

In my limited time as a dozer operator I often found dozing in first gave a better load and more control and also, less tiresome for the operator.

Dozing at high speed may give a better production e.g. when keeping up with dump trucks, but very often it seems pointless.

What do you experienced guys prefer?

Well i dont think i fall in to the experienced guy category haha but i depending on what im doing i usually like to cut in first and carry in second. I know i dont let my boss catch me in second though cause he tears strips like you wouldnt believe!

 

[Iwegian]

As I am a new operator. I run only in first and for the most part not even full throttle. I am not good enough at faster speeds. I also pay my own repair bills and not on an hourly clock so nobody thinking I'm padding the bill. So I think in the long run its what conditions are you running under and your experience.

 

[OzDozer]

Hjolli - You'd usually doze in 1st gear with a big bladeful - and use 2nd gear only when you have to move less-than-full blade amounts a sizeable distance.

On long pushes, with a full blade and the right soils, you can sometimes lift the blade a whisker, and then slip into 2nd gear.

Lifting the blade a whisker means you are now virtually carrying the bladeful, and perhaps even losing a tiny amount - but you're gaining in production speed. The alternative is to stay in 1st gear, bury the blade, and have soil rolling off the edge of the blade.

With the last technique, you're still moving dirt, but in larger amounts, and losing some in the process from the blade. However, any dirt that is moved - even a short distance before it falls away from the blade - is still dirt moved.

The pushing ability of the soil type is the primary choice in gear selection. Gritty, high-sand-content soils are usually "hard" pushing - i.e., there's a lot of friction as the bladeful slides over the ground.

These soils are best pushed in 1st gear with the blade buried and the dirt rolling off the blade. Soils that are "easy" pushing, such as greasy clays, are easily pushed in 2nd gear, using the "slight-lift-and-carry" technique as I outlined above.

 

[goodwin]

Hey fellas,
my first chime in to the dozer forum, plenty of niose in the grader area though
i am strictly self trained in the dozer area but i have owned/ operated a D4D for 10yrs on our cattle station, cutting fence lines, digging dams, chaining, and rake clearing.(and have the scars to prove it) I only use 1st gear for heavy uphill work digging dams, or where you dont want to run over something(flowers, motor cars, etc....)
the rest is all second gear.... lift and carry(and we have a 16ft rake) if you get the load right, you dont need to flog your machine.
there is no substitute for doing lots of hours to be a smoother, more efficient operator,
My golden rule is to keep a smooth grade, if your up and down you will bugger yourself before the machine!

I am looking at buying a bigger machine, (they tell me thier easier to operate....)
i have a choice between a D6C and a komatsuD65... the komagutsa is a lot newer with dead cummins engine(the rest good)
and the D6C is "good runner" pre abused.... (but cheap to fix)
...any thoughts here? we want it mainly for digging catchment dams. (for ourselves)
regards,
Goodwin

 

[OzDozer]

Goodwin - I've never seen any "self-trained" machine operator who was a top-class operator. Earthmoving equipment operation requires training from "old hands" who know all the tips and tricks of correct, careful, and efficient operation. I was taught from the age of 16, by old hands who knew every tip and trick in the book, and they knew it all.
I've know numerous people who taught themselves machine operation - and in every case, they were inefficient, adopted incorrect operating techniques, were hard on machines, and wasted fuel and machine time.
Get into some equipment training scheme - even for a short time - and you'll start to realise how little you know, and how much more efficient you can be as an operator, when a skilled trainer teaches you all the ropes.
If you're carrying scars from machine operation, then it's obvious you've been doing things wrong, and learnt the hard way. There's two ways to learn - be taught correctly and avoid mistakes, or teach yourself, and learn the hard (and expensive) way.

 

[goodwin]

Maybe i should clarify that i am self trianed on dozer but been an underground bogger operator certainly helped with techniques of dirt handling.
there are plenty of people that are willing to share their experience to those that listen, and i have learnt a bit from "old hands" over the years.
iI wish i had the opportunity to get paid to learn like i did underground, but bieng self employed beef producer, there isnt much chance of getting into formal training.
the reference to "scars" is mental type, not physical, although an open cab D4 can throw a few sticks into the cab area in thick scrub to liven you up!
Do you have any suggestions Ozdozer? are there videos, or books worth looking at? i have picked up some things from old operators manuals etc...
Dont spose your planning a holiday to Broome in the future so i could pick your brain!
I have no illusions about becoming a "top operator" only want to be an efficient one.
Regards,
Goodwin

 

[OzDozer]

Goodwin - O.K., being a bogger operator would be some help, although operating a dozer effectively is a whole new learning curve again. Asking questions of competent operators is a good move, most are willing to share operating tips.
I can understand that where you are makes it hard to attend any operator courses. I'm not sure I've seen any videos on dozer operation that are very instructive on actual tractor operation.
Most videos are safety videos, which don't really cover all the operating tips and tricks that make you an efficient operator. However, safety videos are always good to watch, and show the traps for those with inadequate experience.

Yes, Caterpillar have produced a sizeable number of booklets over the decades that show you good operating techniques. "Thinking ahead", and planning your tractors next moves, for efficiency, is high on the list.
Avoiding excessive amounts of reversing is another. Slot dozing increases pushing efficiency. In damsinking, you push dirt the furtherest out when the dam is shallow, then push the lower levels of clay over the inside of the previously-pushed-up dirt.
This is time and cost saving, as compared to continuously pushing dirt up and over the outside of a dam wall. Always plan on pushing dirt to where you want it, just the once - double handling is wasteful and costly.

Yes, I do usually go to Broome annually, in Winter - for a holiday, and to get away from the cold - not to work! LOL

Cheers - Ron.