Do I have a cracked block?? John Deere 310A

[Bogueyman]

I recently bought an old John Deere 310A that did not run (there is another thread on that). I got it running, but ended up with water in the oil and a "chirp" after a couple minutes. Suspecting a head gasket leak and seeing a plugged rocker arm as the cause I;
-Drained the oil last night (left the plug out to get as much water out as possible)
-Disconnected the intercooler lines and drained them in a bucket, also left open (which exit the pump below the water pump)
-Replaced the drain plug ~11:30 this morning
-Pulled the head this morning
-Cleaned and replaced all head parts

At which point I decided to replace the oil plug sealing washer so I pulled the oil plug...... At which point ~2 quarts of coolant came out (green). There was nothing more coming out so I flushed more water out of the radiator/intercooler as above and no water came out. I poured some oil over the rocker arms and pure oil came out

I then turned the motor over(a couple revolutions with the starter) and coolant started coming out of the drain.

Long story short, does this mean my block is cracked? If so should I cut my losses and scrap the machine?

 

[Bogueyman]

I should add that when I turned the engine over the injectors were not installed so there was no compression. I do not understand how there can be a small stream of coolant that starts and stops based on motor rotation

 

[DMiller]

Should be a sleeved engine, sleeves are wet liner where have o-ring seals to the block, dependent on age and how well cooling system was maintained could likely have one cavitated thru wall leaking, that chirp you were hearing a piston trying to scuff to the sleeve wall or the cylinder ingesting coolant in the combustion process(Makes Steam). Most likely to have to pull and full overhaul at least inspect internal engine block to see if recoverable.

 

[Tinkerer]

Don't scrap it !
It shouldn't take a lot of money to get it in running condition.
There are people that look to buy TLB's in that condition just to flip them.
A member named Phil did it on weekly / monthly basis. Sure wish I knew what happened to him.

 

[Bogueyman]

A few questions to showy ignorance. I have seen the term "wet-liner" but do not know what that means other than removable sleeves (which I do see). The chirping happens after about two minutes of running

Does a wet sleeve have coolant that runs around it?
Could I verify this with low pressure in the radiator and see if there is a forced leak based on piston location?

As far as I can tell the machine was not maintained too well and it does have 5,000 hours and I have almost no history. There is a ridge at the top of stroke and some score marks on the sleeves

 

[DMiller]

Will not get any pressure to hold with head off, if dio not wish to sink money in it look for a buyer whole, will not do well breaking it down in pieces.

 

[Tinkerer]

Maybe the chirp is the fan belt. I see it isn't turning.
Take the oil pan off then fill the radiator and pressurize it. You will see water pouring out of the leak.

 

[Bogueyman]

To be clear, the head is on the engine so it should be able to hold pressure. The belt was off in the video clip to eliminate the belt/water pump as a root cause for the chirp.

What area should I look at if I pull the pan then fill/pressurize the coolant? Other than a sleeve problem is there anything I should look at for a cause of the leak that is engine position dependant?

 

[Tinkerer]

Have the valve cover off at the same time and look for coolant leaking.
Any leaks like you described should be easy to see. If you see one, look for more than one.

 

[DMiller]

Anything coming down around the cam is bad could be had could be actual block.
Pull engine around as pressurize to see if thru wall on sleeve.

 

[mg2361]

Most likely liner cavitation. Pull engine oil pan and pressurize the cooling system. Watch where coolant comes from. Outside or inside of the liners. If inside you may have to rotate the engine some and you will probably spot where the coolant is coming from.

 

[Bogueyman]

Thanks for the advice. Working on the oil pan now, but I have a question. It looks like the pan is a structural member. Do I need to support the frame while taking it off? I do not want to crash the machine and it looks like a main support for the structure

 

[DMiller]

It is while in use
Not sitting still
Just additional strength for the machine

If does sag when take loose other problems

 

[Bogueyman]

Thanks, I was just a bit concerned when I saw the large bolts. I got them all loose and they do not feel like they have load. I will give it a shot now

 

[mitch504]

Nope, the engine block is the main structural member

 

[DMiller]

Try to reduce the volume of 'Blue Glue' when reassemble this, really dislike the excess use to Globs of the stuff on anything!!

 

[Bogueyman]

I dislike it too, I do not plan for it to look like that on reassembly.

Got the pan off and filled the water. I have not pressurized it, but it is leaking at the interface of the sleeve and block of cylinder#2 when the cylinder is near, but not at BDC. Does this confirm a wet sleeve leak?

 

[Bogueyman]

I did not see which side of the sleeve was leaking well but it was definitely at the sleeve

 

[DMiller]

Either cavitated or sleeve seals done
Will have to come apart to determine further

 

[Bogueyman]

That is what I thought. Either way the sleeves need to come out and they are worn, so they will need to be replaced. Thanks for the help, I will post more once I get them out