digging over drive motors

[cat 385]

wow,good job iron horse.

 

[bordercollie]

and another for all you operators, TRACK WEAR is less when travelling in forward. I just laugh at the guys who are lazy and swing around so they can pull the levers towards them to travel forward for long distances. appereantly, they have not been instructed or are not paying the bill on the undercarriage repairs. there is a reason the tracks are placed on a machine a certain way.

 

[digger132]

For some odd reason these machines have 360 degree of swing. As for track & rail wear there's more
damage done moving a hoe the length of the undercarriage on uneven or rocky terrain than a mile of tramming, forward or reverse. Clean tracks, proper track tension, and even working surface are the life of excavator undercarriage. Don't get me wrong when working an ME or production pipe I work over the idlers, but on site work there's no forward or reverse, it's where I need to dig

 

[Iron Horse]

It's a wonder one of the manufacturers hav'nt come up with a foot that would come down from the center of the track frame with maybe 4 rams to lift an excavator from the ground . You could steady yourself with the bucket and lift the machine clear of the ground and then use the slew to spin the track gear around . No damage to the ground or the machine . It would look like an Elephants foot about 5' in diameter . Or for a less effective type , the two center bottom track rollers could be on a bogie like on a high track Cat . A ram could force them down which would just pull back on the idler spring . This would make the footprint smaller so the machine could counter rotate easier . Ive noticed if im on a slight mound at the center of the tracks , my machine will counter rotate with little effort . Even lifting the tracks at the front with the boom whilst turning tears up the ground , i wonder if it would work .

 

[AtlasRob]

It would look like an Elephants foot about 5' in diameter , i wonder if it would work .

It would work BUT would it cost more than the wear on the undercarriage it would save :beerchug

BTW, nice PC60 and you obviously are not frightened to use it, impressive lump of wood you dislodged there :drinkup

 

[Reuben]

and another for all you operators, TRACK WEAR is less when travelling in forward. I just laugh at the guys who are lazy and swing around so they can pull the levers towards them to travel forward for long distances. appereantly, they have not been instructed or are not paying the bill on the undercarriage repairs. there is a reason the tracks are placed on a machine a certain way.

IS there though??on an Excavator forward is where you are facing,ya I know forward is really when the sprokets are in the back,but on a dozer the spokets are on the back because of the engine/tranny layout,,.........right??? I am not disagreeing but think about it... for the most part a dozer travels in reverse as much as it travels forward. unless you turn around to return back to the start of the push,( which we all know we dont).

 

[Iron Horse]

It would work BUT would it cost more than the wear on the undercarriage it would save :beerchug

Thank's , i was thinking more along the lines of being able to shift the digger 360* in any direction without disturbing the surface . The beauty of an excavator is that with a quick pull of the travel levers you can reposition yourself and resume digging . I think it would be great to be able to do this in all directions without damage to the area , sort of like crab steer on a backhoe . Two more ideas i have , 1 is a Traxcavator on a ballrace slew base the same as an excavator , so you could travel into a pile and scoop , back out and slew around to dump into the truck without spinning the tracks around . The other is an oscillating front axle on a wheel loader the same as the rear axle but with a ram on each side of the front axle . When you want to make a straight cut across a slope or run a drain off of a road or a 1000 other reasons you could tilt the whole machine to get the bucket/blade/forks etc level .

 

[Squizzy246B]

Iron Horse, Cross axle levelling has been around for awhile an various machines... https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1400

I assume durability or expense (or both) is the reason we don't see it more on wheel loaders.

 

[Iron Horse]

The other is an oscillating front axle on a wheel loader the same as the rear axle but with a ram on each side of the front axle . When you want to make a straight cut across a slope or run a drain off of a road or a 1000 other reasons you could tilt the whole machine to get the bucket/blade/forks etc level .

Like i said , on a "wheel loader" not a Telehandler . Do you have some pictures of this system on a "Wheel loader" ?

 

[Squizzy246B]

The system is used on underground loaders.

 

[Iron Horse]

This is the type of Wheel Loader i was refering too in my original question , for the above ground use that i mentioned . Does anyone who manufactures THESE type of loaders do one with a leveling option ?

 

[RocksnRoses]

This is the type of Wheel Loader i was refering too in my original question , for the above ground use that i mentioned . Does anyone who manufactures THESE type of loaders do one with a leveling option ?

G'day Iron Horse, Iv'e operated wheel loaders most of my life and I have never seen it, not to say that it is not out there. It's an interesting concept and I could think of lot's of instances where it could be used. I think it could be a bit dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced operator if the bucket was in the air and he hit the levelling lever. The answer maybe some sort of mechanical lock for normal loader work with it being released when you want to level the machine. My other concern would be as the machine gets older the accumulated wear in the ram ends would make the machine quite wobbly especially with the bucket in the air. This might also be adressed with a strong mechanical lock. Interesting concept though.

Rn'R.

 

[insleyboy]

I recall an operator pulling concrete off a 10,000 gallon fuel tank before removal. This was tank #4 in a series of 7 at a Ford research building. This was operator #2 and he had tracks with drives in front as opposed to what was sucessfull 3 times before. I suggested spinning the 335 Cat around but the operator refused....said he had it under control. I watched as he pulled tank #4 out of its sandy moorings and promply sunk this backwards digging excavator!. We used 2 long reach excavators and a 2900 manitowoc to retrieve this very strong excavator from the deep sand!. Got it out and pulled the next 3 tanks with no issue with drives on rear, as the drives from this ole 335 pulled em out like no ones business. From that day foreward....I was convinced!

 

[bordercollie]

IS there though??on an Excavator forward is where you are facing,ya I know forward is really when the sprokets are in the back,but on a dozer the spokets are on the back because of the engine/tranny layout,,.........right??? I am not disagreeing but think about it... for the most part a dozer travels in reverse as much as it travels forward. unless you turn around to return back to the start of the push,( which we all know we dont).

in order to gain maximum life from your undercarriage you should do as much reverse travel as possible, regardless if the upperstructure revolves or not.

dozers are made to push, not to back blade, i agree there are times when this operation is needed, but to maximuize undercarriage, keep it to the absolute minimun, same goes for operators that like to favor one side while steering, keep in mind while operating and give each track equal amounts of time of drive force when at all possible.

I am not trying to give a operator school, as i am a far better service technician than a operator, yet i see what does happen in the real world and i know circumstances arise when extreme measures are required, just keep in mind what i said, if you have to travel a long distance, for many cycles, excavator or not, keep the sprockets towards your back side

 

[Iron Horse]

The answer maybe some sort of mechanical lock for normal loader work with it being released when you want to level the machine.

Rn'R.

I think your correct , it would need a Micro Switch on a lift ram so that it would isolate the power to the servo control that powers it . That way it would not work above , say 2 foot . But then after saying that , there were many times i remember trying to get the downside fork tyne under a log on a log truck and thinking how good would it be if i could simply tilt the machine so the fork could enter .

 

[knucklehead98]

I just saw a thread in the mini exc. section that brought up a good question. With the mini's having a blade, would it be acceptable to use the blade to have something to push against? That would put you working over the drives. I guess the answer would depend on the how extreme the situation is, and if it was a last resort or not.

 

[AtlasRob]

I just saw a thread in the mini exc. section that brought up a good question. With the mini's having a blade, would it be acceptable to use the blade to have something to push against? That would put you working over the drives. I guess the answer would depend on the how extreme the situation is, and if it was a last resort or not.

To reopen this can of worms the blade on the Kubuto exc is so far out in front, when trenching I dig over the track motors. ( do we have a smiley in the ducked position with his hands over his head ) No No NO I said ducked as in ducked down to avoid flying missiles.

 

[knucklehead98]

To reopen this can of worms

Leave it to me to open the can!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trakloader]

The cable log loaders with Cat 245 carriers are not supposed to lift heavy loads over the sprockets if it can be avoided. They also say to never move the machine any distance with the sprockets forward. On the subject of things hitting the controls, the old Cat system, two pedals and a lever, seems like a safer system.

 

[Demo_Andy]

To reopen this can of worms the blade on the Kubuto exc is so far out in front, when trenching I dig over the track motors. ( do we have a smiley in the ducked position with his hands over his head ) No No NO I said ducked as in ducked down to avoid flying missiles.

I remember when I was at construction college, there was a gang of trainees learning the ropes on the mini excavators. They were being taught to dig with the blade at rear. Probably for the same reason as you Rob, restricted view and probably restricted dig cycle too.

Concerning my own demolition point of view for working over motors in everyday trivial stuff, I dont really follow any 'rules' like digging over idlers, lifting with motors at back etc. Just whatever way round the machine happens to be just get to work, seems a bit inefficient to me to skew the machine round 180 degrees just to stop some know it all wannabe digger driver from criticising.

For jobs/tasks I class as special or requiring extra care I'll make an effort to get motors at rear. For example working on high or dangerous parts of a building so if something starts coming your way u know that back on the pedals IS back. On the high reach I'll have the motors at back too.

More worms!.....

Andy