digging over drive motors

[ragerider]

Well some boss's say over the idlers others say over the drive motors, well as long as I'm in the seat it's over the drive motors. I always try to dig the same way that way when something happens You dont have to think which way your heading. Last spring I was working near a job by Kinsley construction they were moving a causway in the susquehanna river in Harrisburg I watched there hoe operator he never knew which way he was digging he would travel and go the wrong way a few times well on day sure enough he did this and flopped a new 330c in the river water in the engine they had to drag it out! One of the reasons I dig over my drive motors is we work hills alot almost all of our new hoes have grauser pads and when your on a hill you want your drive motors down hill!

 

[dayexco]

well as long as I'm in the seat it's over the drive motors. I always try to dig the same way that way when something happens You dont have to think which way your heading.

yes you do, with the drive motors behind you, and idlers in front of you, when you push your levers ahead, the machine moves ahead, pull the levers back, the machine backs up. to me, that just seems a natural motion, one that the manufacturers intended for some reason or another. that is unless somebody has changed the valving on all the machines you've been running.

 

[INSTRUCTOR WAR]

Ive never seen planetary failure from digging over the finals, although i dont recommend doint it because of the unneccesary weight and pressure u put on the finals. thats why your not suppose travel while carrying any additional weight other than the machine itself. and if u do its a good idea to bring the object in close then set it down and move back and repick it. plus theres always the risk of slamming a large rock or pice of concrete into the final wich could shatter it.

but the main cause for planetary failure on small to meduim excavators ive seen stems from operators not practicing a technique of leveling hard humps of ground out before they track over it wich puts the dry pins in a severe bind especially on machines with wider shoes. the next thing that happens is that the rails get latteral slack in them prematuerly from all the flexation wich could easily cause the track to fall off. operators often try and compensate by adjusting the track out. the problem is that with such a long track frame u cant get the track tight enuff to take out the lateral slack and u end up putting the seal and bearing between the motor and the planetary in a hellacious bind. it starts making metal very quickly. the metal will actullay clump togethor inside the planetary and basically pack like silt forcing the cohesive gear oil out of the center of the clump until it becomes dry and a large chunk flakes off into the gears. with no room for expansion in the planetary, the gears shatter.

although a a disadvantge of working off the front idlers is that if the operator consistantly uses the track as a back stop to force large rocks or concrete into the bucket it can spread the idler yokes over time and also cause the track to be misguided and fall off.

 

[OneWelder]

Over the years I have repaired a number of punctured hydraulic lines.

 

[385Diggin' Doug]

Welcome aboard 385digging_doug. What part of the keystone state do you hail from?:usa :drinkup Would it be right to assume that you run a 385?:notworthy

I live in Northampton County by Nazareth.I work for a Union company out of Burlington County NJ.I run our 385 when needed mostly doing deep or extreme pipe work.I also do most of our Grader work when needed.Kinda get involved in everything.Nice change of pace at times.Where are you from and who do you work for?

 

[digger242j]

Being a resident of a backward country like DownUnder, I have never heard of 'type c' and 'type b'. Most of us down here are a bit simple and so the powers that be haven't got that technical with us yet.

I meant to get to this when that question came up, but I got otherwise occupied, and then forgot.

The regulations Diggin' Doug refers to are available online. Here's the link to the bit about soil classification: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10931

 

[INSTRUCTOR WAR]

lol without knowing yer soil classifications then u dont know what yer benching or sloping requirements are. but dont worry OSHA will always let u know. for some of u guys who would like to know more u can buy National center for construction education and research (NCCER) modules on many different aspects or machines of the excavation industry. if u buy the below grade construction module u will know what the term ANGLE OF REPOSE means. the modules are about $15 to $20 a piece i think and pretty easy to read.

 

[Eric]

Angle of repose is the natrual fall of dirt 1 1/3 to 1:usa

 

[Squizzy246B]

lol without knowing yer soil classifications then u dont know what yer benching or sloping requirements are. .

We do happen to know one or two things about soils down ere.....Just our soil classification jargon is a lot different ....so us poor colonial descendents of convicts can understand them:

http://www.clw.csiro.au/aclep/asc/asc.htm

Geologically speaking, Australia, and in particular, Western Australia are some of the earliest formed and most exposed bit of the earth....so our dirt is pretty well worn out...as such what remains may have huge local variance of composition (its grains of Felspar, quartz, mica, iron and so on)

The Australian Clasification provides a guide for determining the soil characteristics rather than labelling a type A, B etc....oil may be oil but I really have to tell you that out here sand is not sand....we have seven classifications of sand locally ranging from crap that compacts well to useless crap that your kids can't even build a sand castle with.

The important thing is not to make an assumption based on a classification label but to gain an understanding of the characteristics and the very very localised variances. Over in Deas part of Down Under, and under the old classification he would quite often have 4 to 5 soil types on one small site in an area known as the Hinterlands where a 2 billion year old mountain range has decomposed and washed to the coastal plain.

Recently here, a gentleman of US origin, and working as a consultant for a large Australian construction company came to help out with some Acid Suphate soils in the Perth Basin. He watched an excavator take a bucket of clay in the site and up end the bucket, shake like nothin on earth and the muck refuse to come out of the bucket.....he remarked "You've got Gumbo"

 

[RDG]

I did read somewhere, think it was a Cat publication going back a bit that when lifting or digging heavy materials always do it over the idlers that way the load is transfered from the ground to the trackpad, tracklink/rail then to the idler, the pin&bush take virtualy no vertical load plus the idler is supported on both sides. Digging over the sprockets the load goes from the link ,to the pin, to the bush,then to the sprocket, if the pins/bushes are getting thin I guess broken or cracked bushes would be the result. Just my 2cents worth.

 

[JimBruce42]

I live in Northampton County by Nazareth.I work for a Union company out of Burlington County NJ.I run our 385 when needed mostly doing deep or extreme pipe work.I also do most of our Grader work when needed.Kinda get involved in everything.Nice change of pace at times.Where are you from and who do you work for?

I'm originally from Bloomsburg, but now live with my fiance' in Chester County. I work for Allen Myers, which, at the moment has me working in Richmond, VA. This is why it took me 20 days to reply to your post:cool2

How is the 385 to run? you enjoy it?:drinkup

 

[385Diggin' Doug]

I'm originally from Bloomsburg, but now live with my fiance' in Chester County. I work for Allen Myers, which, at the moment has me working in Richmond, VA. This is why it took me 20 days to reply to your post:cool2

How is the 385 to run? you enjoy it?:drinkup

The 385 is one awsome machine:notworthy I have given others there test and the Cat's come out on top in my book.I do enjoy running it as well as enjoy everything else we do.However,it is parked right now and I am running a grader for Tilcon.It is a good change of pace.
How long have you been with AAM and what do you primarily do ?.When you work out of state like this do they give you per diem or take care of your expenses?I would be curious as to what their pay rate and benefits are like now.Back in the early 90's I took two weeks of my vacation and worked for them in Bristol @ Merck.Myself and everybody else on that job had issues with the formeman Dave Terrelle and I wound up leaving.Keep in touch.

 

[Buckethead]

The 385 is one awsome machine:notworthy I have given others there test and the Cat's come out on top in my book.I do enjoy running it as well as enjoy everything else we do.However,it is parked right now and I am running a grader for Tilcon.It is a good change of pace.
How long have you been with AAM and what do you primarily do ?.When you work out of state like this do they give you per diem or take care of your expenses?I would be curious as to what their pay rate and benefits are like now.Back in the early 90's I took two weeks of my vacation and worked for them in Bristol @ Merck.Myself and everybody else on that job had issues with the formeman Dave Terrelle and I wound up leaving.Keep in touch.

Doug, I'm curious to know whose 385 you run. Is it that R&R you mentioned? The only R&R I know of is in Chester NJ that Trackhoe71 works for, you said that's not them. You said they are in Burlington County do you mean "RNR"?

 

[zhkent]

I did read somewhere, think it was a Cat publication going back a bit that when lifting or digging heavy materials always do it over the idlers that way the load is transfered from the ground to the trackpad, tracklink/rail then to the idler, the pin&bush take virtualy no vertical load plus the idler is supported on both sides. Digging over the sprockets the load goes from the link ,to the pin, to the bush,then to the sprocket, if the pins/bushes are getting thin I guess broken or cracked bushes would be the result. Just my 2cents worth.

Make sense to me.

 

[wildy]

an experienced operator once said to me if you dig over your idlers the track is tensioned on top and better to dig over motors cos tensioned underneath. if anybody can expand on that, its you lot! not my opinion by the way, just my 2 pence worth.

 

[Buckethead]

one more quick question.

The 385 is one awsome machine:notworthy I have given others there test and the Cat's come out on top in my book.I do enjoy running it as well as enjoy everything else we do.However,it is parked right now and I am running a grader for Tilcon.It is a good change of pace.
How long have you been with AAM and what do you primarily do ?.When you work out of state like this do they give you per diem or take care of your expenses?I would be curious as to what their pay rate and benefits are like now.Back in the early 90's I took two weeks of my vacation and worked for them in Bristol @ Merck.Myself and everybody else on that job had issues with the formeman Dave Terrelle and I wound up leaving.Keep in touch.

Doug I have yet to take a pic of a 385. Where is yours located I would love to get a pic.

 

[drag1line]

If I can put my two cents in.
1. You dig over the idlers as less wear on the drive sprokets due to the chain sliding up and down,2. The drive reductions can weigh, depending upon size of machine from several hundred to over 1000# each. If they are behind you the machine WILL be much more stable. 3. The direction of the drive pedals is correct. Push back and the machine goes back, forward and the machine goes forward. and 4.It is MUCH safer for the operator. Unfortunely have been involved with accident investigation over the years. If a tree, log, pipe, pole, ect falls into the front of the cab and hits those travel levers, it will push them backwards. Gearbox to the rear and the machine will pull away from the object, Gearbox to the front and the machine will move forward into whatever has fallen into the front of the cab,,driving it DIRECTLY INTO THE OPERATOR'S CHEST!! Not a guess, but fact.
My two cents.

 

[AtlasRob]

very close

If a tree, log, pipe, pole, ect falls into the front of the cab and hits those travel levers, it will push them backwards. Gearbox to the rear and the machine will pull away from the object, Gearbox to the front and the machine will move forward into whatever has fallen into the front of the cab,,driving it DIRECTLY INTO THE OPERATOR'S CHEST!! Not a guess, but fact.
My two cents.

X2 saw it done with a railway sleeper one night. Exactly how it didn't become a fatality is still quite beyond me.
Saw a pic today of an exc with a 24" cast iron pipe through the cab screen.
He was lucky, saw it coming and got up on the seat. BUT, was over his track motors so the machine kept tracking onto the pipe. Luckly he had the presence of mind to turn the key off.

 

[JackDeere]

If you watch the machine as you dig, it rocks towards the bucket as you put a load on it. Look at the final drive sprocket, it is actually elevated above the bottom rollers to keep the weight off of it. If you dig into your finals you are rocking the weight of the machine on the bearings in the final drive and you will greatly reduce the life of the bearings.

 

[hoeman600]

never never. dig over unles avoidable. my cat salesman also has said in the very past drives are figured into counter weight of machine