Design Flaws: What would you do better?

[STRPETE]

Howbout my Dodge, where you have to remove the battery and airbox to change a headlight bulb. I liked my 03 GMC, you could just pull 2 pins, and the headlight assembly would plop right out in your hands. AWESOME IDEA!! Unitized hubs on Dodge
4x4? There's a real winner, NOT!! Parking brake valves (MV3) in a Freightliner FLD series. It appears that they were installed into dash before the dash was installed into the cab. Nearly impossible to get out without breaking anything. Another engineering masterpiece is the push to connect fittings for nylon tubing. While they're great for quick assembly, they suck to get apart after a few years of dirt and corrosion, especially in a tight spot where you can only get 1 hand in there. Here's another jewel, Peterbilts with the batteries inside the cab! Had one blow up one time, what a mess. I'll think of a few more things that make life miserable later
Steve

 

[mitch504]

Man, those push-connect fittings suck donkey bleeps even inside the cab. I hate them!

 

[D11RCD]

Howbout my Dodge, where you have to remove the battery and airbox to change a headlight bulb. I liked my 03 GMC, you could just pull 2 pins, and the headlight assembly would plop right out in your hands. AWESOME IDEA!! Unitized hubs on Dodge
4x4? There's a real winner, NOT!! Parking brake valves (MV3) in a Freightliner FLD series. It appears that they were installed into dash before the dash was installed into the cab. Nearly impossible to get out without breaking anything. Another engineering masterpiece is the push to connect fittings for nylon tubing. While they're great for quick assembly, they suck to get apart after a few years of dirt and corrosion, especially in a tight spot where you can only get 1 hand in there. Here's another jewel, Peterbilts with the batteries inside the cab! Had one blow up one time, what a mess. I'll think of a few more things that make life miserable later
Steve

I hate those dash ones! We never fixed that rattle behind ours lol.
When we got water in the Magna's headlights we had to take the battery out to get to the headlight, only to find that it had bolts hidden behind the radiator. Got it fixed by mechanic when we got it serviced. Have to take the entire boot top out of the Vienta when we had to replace the bulb in the back window, and have to take out the entire boot lining to get to the rear light cluster assembly.:Banghead as well as the 4 bolts that are underneath and done up so tight that we had to bend a cheapie wrench to get it out.:Banghead

 

[Bison]

I wonder what they where thinking when they designed the ASV 4810.:beatsme
The only thing thats easy to get to on them is the rad cap.
Wrenching on the contraption sets a guy to drinking:drinkup:drinkup or seriously contemplete suicide.:Banghead

 

[dave esterns]

our case ih mx200 tractor has an oil pan leak. u have to pull the engine to fix it because the frame surrounds the whole bottom half of the engine.

 

[Mangleweld]

that pic is very humourous.

I am an engineer at Cat. I just joined this forum. I take these coments seriously. I'm a younger guy who works on his own cars and such. I'm also a machinist in my spare time. I understand your pain at least some.

I do see things almost every day that make me want say WTF? :Banghead
I try hard not the be the cause of them!

Everything looks so small and easy on a CAD computer screen.
It's difficult, even impossible for most engineers to get enough exposure to the reality of a machine to really make them service freindly. Equally difficult to imagine all the creative ways people find to break them!

We do try very hard. Honest feedback is very valuable. When things break, the Cat dealers have a form to fill out about how and why and comments about the details of the repair. Please fill out the forms accurately and completely. We actually have people digging through those databases trying to make life better for the mechanics by improving reliability and servicability. "part broke" and "repair was horrible" don't give them anyhting to go on as far as making improvements.

Sincerely,
Dan

Welcome, glad to see you on also. I am new to this board also, was a field engineer with Buick Motor Division until I retired. We finally in the 80's started requiring that a service engineer was on the design team and had to sign off on the design or it did not go to production. This did not correct all the problems but it sure did help..

 

[Richardjw~]

our case ih mx200 tractor has an oil pan leak. u have to pull the engine to fix it because the frame surrounds the whole bottom half of the engine.

Dave,


Pulling the engine on a MX200 is not a big job, the tractor still stands on 4 wheels.

The reason the oil pan leaks is because (1) the Cummins sump retaining bolts need reinforcing straps in the corners (long washers that fit in the sump ledge to you and me) and (2) the frame cavity fills with dirt and mud and as the engine rocks on the iso-mounts, which also wear, the sump imprints in to it and pulls on the bolts and loosening around the sump gasket.

Either fill the sump area with that expanding foam or you can bolt strips of thick inner tube around the chassis to keep mud out (or at least reduce the amount that gets in there) - Case actually do a kit for this.

 

[partsandservice]

I understand the frustration from an owners standpoint, but from a mechanics standpoint that is billing by thew hour the harder the better. The 416 mentioned earlier , a small job just turned into a major labor bill . Also if that Cat engineer is still checking this out, please attempt to stop the tilt cab on the d model skidders because that will put a whooping on my billed time on transmission remove and replace. Cat,s labor bills will take a hit as well. Relativly few transmission failures have I seen under warranty. The removable sheet metal makes access for most other repairs so cab removal is only necessary for transmission overhaul. And oh yea, 644s,bring on !

 

[Larry123]

I was told by truck driver that the reason the designers built the things the way they do. It was because they found out their wife was having an affair with their mechanic and wanted to get even. That is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[okiebindernut]

Run over and squash a Bobcat, any model Bobcat, with a Cat 785 haul truck...then start over from scratch. :Banghead

No truer words have ever been spoken. I despise anything that says Bobcat on it.

 

[kshansen]

No truer words have ever been spoken. I despise anything that says Bobcat on it.

We have a 743 Bobcat and I can agree things are way to hard to access on it, but, I would take that old Bobcat over the 185 Robot JCB any day of the week! If you want to see a major Cluster F*** of a design check out the tilt cylinder mounting design:Banghead Instead of two pins, one at each end they have one pin at the rod end and four links that look like connecting rods out of an IR compressor mounted to the side of the barrel. So instead of two points to wear there are now six They did change this on the newer JCB's I have seen but that does me no good.

And then there is that single sided boom design. Great visibility to the left but forget seeing anything on the right. Sure it's safer as you are not climbing under a raised boom to get out but then what idiot does that anyhow! Maybe they should design the seat belt to not release till bucket is on the ground? All it would take is a few extra sensors, a relay or two a dedicated ECM an a mile or two of poorly marked and routed wires:cool2

 

[wrwtexan]

And I thought Bobcat was supposed to be the cat's a##. I just got the engine and pump package back into a T300 that was so full of dirt (as it has no removable belly pans for cleanout, WTH?), I had to look at parts schematic to find front engine mounts and cut them before I could get it out. Even after cleaning a wheelbarrow load (really) of dirt out of it, reinstalling the front mounts was one of the worst pains in my a## of my 13 years of major repair work. Best I could tell, I should have removed all of the valves and hoses first. One thing about custom repair is I can see which brands are engineered versus drawn by the slow kids eating crayons.

 

[Bison]

My son has one of these bobcat contraptions, everything electronic. i hope for him it runs a long time without issues cause i don't want anything the do with it.
I have my belly full already of the ASV 4810 i have and that one is easy compared to the kitty.

 

[Deere500a]

Case 580M-3 pos Digmor buttons,outrigger switches that work some time.4/1 rocker switch. Dash 2 M ok for a Case stay with it no we have to find job security for the shop.

 

[theironoracle]

Crayons are yummy! Figured that is why I needed to fix this stuff rather than design it!! Lol....TIO

 

[Mobiltech]

How about the engine oil cooler on a ford 6.4 diesel (Navistar) that is a 20 hour job to change. If the intake manifold had 1/4 inch more clearance at the front the cooler could be changed in about 2 hours. To remove the intake you have to remove the turbos and to remove the turbos you have to remove the cab of the truck. Yeah how do you like that when the first thing it says in the manual under turbo Replacement is remove cab!!!!

 

[kshansen]

To remove the intake you have to remove the turbos and to remove the turbos you have to remove the cab of the truck. Yeah how do you like that when the first thing it says in the manual under turbo Replacement is remove cab!!!!

And that might not be a big deal with a fairly new truck, but what about when it's about 8 years old and hardware is rusted solid?

 

[SE-Ia Cowman]

With all the bobcat complaining I cant believe now body mentioned the little fuel pick up hose that goes in the top of the fuel tank held in with a grommet, The last 1 I change was on a 863 I pulled the right rear wheel pulled the cover then tried to put my oversized arm in the hole, after making a trip to the cow barn for some ob lube (KY for cows) I did manage to get 2 fingers on the line and pull it out. But getting the new grommet back in the tank took a long pry bar and a lot of cussing, I think Atco is on the rite track with crushing anything that says Bobcat on the side

 

[Mikefromcny]

How about the engine oil cooler on a ford 6.4 diesel (Navistar) that is a 20 hour job to change. If the intake manifold had 1/4 inch more clearance at the front the cooler could be changed in about 2 hours. To remove the intake you have to remove the turbos and to remove the turbos you have to remove the cab of the truck. Yeah how do you like that when the first thing it says in the manual under turbo Replacement is remove cab!!!!

I'm glad somebody said it.