D9G or D9H - What do you recommend?

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

ol'stonebreaker. I had never heard of a 'Johnson Bar' on tractor till I got on the internet . . . I always associated it with steam.

In my experience, here in Australia, it was just a 'forward/reverse stick' and a handy one at that.

You are dead right about the clutch of course.

Cheers.

 

[D6c10K]

..... For my money I'd look for a well cared for D8-K w/ a 2 shank paralellogram ripper.
Mike

That sounds like a good option to me, especially if the neighboring outfit is getting by with a D6. Don't see any up for auction right now, but there have been many military D8k's up for sale on http://www.govliquidation.com/ or on http://www.govplanet.com/ They most all have rippers and excellent undercarriages.

Here are a few past auction results, but I've seen quite a few in much nicer condition: http://www.govplanet.com/jsp/s/search.ips?k=D8k&sm=1&mf=1

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

Yair . . .

ol'stonebreaker. I had never heard of a 'Johnson Bar' on tractor till I got on the internet . . . I always associated it with steam.

In my experience, here in Australia, it was just a 'forward/reverse stick' and a handy one at that.

You are dead right about the clutch of course.

Cheers.

I'm sure the forward/reverse stick here in the states got it's name from the steam age. That's all I've ever heard it called. In the last few yrs here it's been used to name a human penis, LOL!!
Mike

 

[Passionhawk1]

All you talking about stick trannies in cats and no mention of the Johnson Bar?? Another thing to remember on the stick cats w/ hand clutch: If you plan to be off the seat for awhile and leave the engine running, put the tranny in neutral and engage the clutch. The clutch pilot bearing will love you for it and if you have to replace the pilot brg you'll respect it afterward!!
For my money I'd look for a well cared for D8-K w/ a 2 shank paralellogram ripper.
Mike

Now a Johnson Bar I know something about. That's your forward/reverser in a steam locomotive. While I experienced Cats as a young man, I've spent the majority of my life as a film Producer. As such, I've produced several down-the-road entertainment stories about steam locomotives. Three different films on the SP 4449 which was the Freedom Train in 1976 that toured the USA with the US Constitution. I've shot the 700 out of Portland, Oregon, all the V&T engines, The UP 844, the Big Boy, Western Maryland RR, the 765 Nickel Plate Road engine out of Ft. Wayne, the 601 from Northstar Rail, the Queens engine out of BC, the Ghost Train out of Ely and a lot more. I had the humbling honor of being a "Hog Head" for ten minutes running the SP 4449 between Albany, Oregon and Eugene. What a thrill!!!!!! Yes, I think we all know the other reference to a Johnson!

 

[Passionhawk1]

For my money I'd look for a well cared for D8-K w/ a 2 shank paralellogram ripper.
Mike

May we talk about the paralellogram, please? I looked at those and there's no way to adjust the angle of attack on the ripper shanks. They are usually in a locked, fixed position with the hydraulics only used to apply downward pressure on the ripper frame. I know what when the tooth enters the ground, you want it to be somewhat vertical so it can get down quickly into the earth. Once it's got depth, you want to adjust the shank to be slightly forward of center for the best angle of attack. That's the control you get with a 4 barrel ripper that you don't seem to get with a paralellogram frame ripper. Is that correct?

 

[Passionhawk1]

That sounds like a good option to me, especially if the neighboring outfit is getting by with a D6. Don't see any up for auction right now, but there have been many military D8k's up for sale on http://www.govliquidation.com/ or on http://www.govplanet.com/ They most all have rippers and excellent undercarriages.

Here are a few past auction results, but I've seen quite a few in much nicer condition: http://www.govplanet.com/jsp/s/search.ips?k=D8k&sm=1&mf=1

Now that's something I hadn't thought about - a government auction. That's how I bout my old 10-yard White-Western Star truck. It was a beauty!!!! You're right. I'll bet the undercarriages are very good and they maintain the heck out of those government vehicles. Thanks for the link. I'll check that out.

Kindest Regards,
jim mitchell

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . .

That's the control you get with a 4 barrel ripper that you don't seem to get with a paralellogram frame ripper. Is that correct?

That's correct Passionhawk1 But its still better than one of these. . . .





Cheers,

 

[tctractors]

Lot of script here for Mr Passionhawk to read up on, but my thoughts are a bit off due to the driver skills??? but I would think a D8K with a single shank Kelly style ripper would be the easiest to get your hand in operating, the D8K is simple to pilot and the 1 shank is easy to control without getting tied up with chunks of block stone getting tucked up under the hook, as for in field repair take a peep at Caterpillar Sprocket Removal in Shop Talk, as there is no need to go any place to rebuild or repair near anything on a D8 or D9 other than machining, every thing can be done to these tractors on the spot they stand on as I do it all the time.

 

[Passionhawk1]

In my humble opinion direct drive needs a long stroke low rpm engine with a torque curve like a cliff, when you pull into a cut you can hear it pull down and beller like some ancient beastie. Torque convertors as Scrub mentioned allow the use of smaller higher rpm engines because of the sort of automatic reduction in speed as you gain torque. The engines still pull down some but you're gaining about half a gear as the torque loads up and does it's thing rather seamlessly.

A direct drive would probably shine in a slot dozing application like removing overburden in a coal mine, but hey, Obama pretty well shut those all down here I think, can't have all us subjects, er, citizens using up electricity and warming the globe, gotta leave that to the rich and political flying around burning tanker loads of kerosene on the way to all those green summits. Green is the color of money yeah? Sorry, wandered off there....

A lot of this country runs on coal. Big supply, easy to mine, hard to imagine coal being eliminated.

 

[Passionhawk1]

Lot of script here for Mr Passionhawk to read up on, but my thoughts are a bit off due to the driver skills??? but I would think a D8K with a single shank Kelly style ripper would be the easiest to get your hand in operating, the D8K is simple to pilot and the 1 shank is easy to control without getting tied up with chunks of block stone getting tucked up under the hook, as for in field repair take a peep at Caterpillar Sprocket Removal in Shop Talk, as there is no need to go any place to rebuild or repair near anything on a D8 or D9 other than machining, every thing can be done to these tractors on the spot they stand on as I do it all the time.

Well, I've learned a great deal from this forum and have followed all the links. As for driver skills, I did relate my first time out with my father when I was 14 and driver skills were non-existent at that time. Since then, I've operated several tractors and frankly, I feel most comfortable with brakes and frictions. It just feels like better control than just using the clutch levers only. I'll keep watch on the government auctions. I noticed they have a D7 coming up for sale in Reno where I live but it doesn't have a ripper. Too bad because it is so close. It's a relief to know that service can be done in the field because hauling these tractors is an expensive proposition. Thanks so much for your comments, tctractors.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell

 

[Passionhawk1]

Yair . . . .



That's correct Passionhawk1 But its still better than one of these. . . .


View attachment 160345


Cheers,

Hello again, Scrub Puller. Now when you say - "better than one of these" - you are referring to the single shank without the paralellogram frame, is that correct? Are these really like nipples on a boar hog? I've seen several tractors with that style of ripper.

And another question: tctractors mentioned the use of a Kelly-style ripper. That's the big extended hook frame with one shank and a 2 barrel hydraulic pushing the frame down. Are those known to be as good as a 4 barrel ripper? They still seem to lack control of the shank to adjust the angle of attack.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

That hinge style ripper on the D8h had pivoting tines and would have to be the biggest abomination Cat ever made.

Cheers.

 

[Passionhawk1]

Yair . . .

That hinge style ripper on the D8h had pivoting tines and would have to be the biggest abomination Cat ever made.

Cheers.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

May we talk about the paralellogram, please? I looked at those and there's no way to adjust the angle of attack on the ripper shanks. They are usually in a locked, fixed position with the hydraulics only used to apply downward pressure on the ripper frame. I know what when the tooth enters the ground, you want it to be somewhat vertical so it can get down quickly into the earth. Once it's got depth, you want to adjust the shank to be slightly forward of center for the best angle of attack. That's the control you get with a 4 barrel ripper that you don't seem to get with a paralellogram frame ripper. Is that correct?

I guess the term "parallelogram" must be a regional dialect thing as that's all I've ever heard the adjustable ones called.
Mike

 

[Passionhawk1]

I guess the term "parallelogram" must be a regional dialect thing as that's all I've ever heard the adjustable ones called.
Mike

It was my impression that the paralellogram config was the one with 2 barrels for downward pressure on the frame and ALSO, the fixed metal arms that keep the shanks in the same position whether the frame is raised or lowered - but no shank adjustment. Yes-no?

- jm

 

[lantraxco]

Yes, parallelogram is four links, two cylinders typically for adjustment up and down, the ripper shank is always dead vertical in relationship to the machine.

The four barrel, two of the links are replaced by cylinders allowing for adjustment of the ripper shank angle.

 

[StanRUS]

It was my impression that the paralellogram config was the one with 2 barrels for downward pressure on the frame and ALSO, the fixed metal arms that keep the shanks in the same position whether the frame is raised or lowered - but no shank adjustment. Yes-no?

- jm

Yes you're correct! 4 barrel provides superior penetration by moving the ripper points toward the back, then better breaking of the material by moving the points toward the front. If you leave the points pointing rearward you'll wear the point off and the shank, shank protective boot because it is dragging, by rotating towards the front the points are self sharpening. When ripping really hard material, use every point of the compass!

 

[Nige]

To me an adjustable angle ripper is the way to go. That way you can a) use the angle cylinders as a giant prybar to lever difficult rocks out of the ground and b) the angle of attack of the ripper tooth/teeth can be varied to get optimum ripping performance depending on how the grain of the rock is angled. BTW before someone says the shank is upside down the machine was new and that's how it shipped from the factory.

 

[StanRUS]

Another consideration for the OP, WINTER USAGE enclosed cab with good working heater...N.E Nevada? gets chilly, sitting exposed on a dozer is miserable.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

sitting exposed on a dozer is miserable.

Maybe, but it costs. I always reckoned gloves and muffs and balaclava gave more bang for the buck.

Cheers.