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D9G or D9H - What do you recommend?

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Things Are Coming Together

I ran a local ad looking for qualified Caterpillar service people in the area where the equipment will live. I have started to receive some good individual response. This improves the comfort zone. I've decided to get into some of the service myself - certainly the daily greasing at a minimum. I'm also going to tackle some of the maintenance so I can learn more about the equipment.

I see a great deal of used trucks with hydraulic lifts on the internet for sale. Seems it wouldn't hurt to have one of those around to help lift the heavy stuff into place. I first thought we could use the excavator for that but then I realized, what if something happens to the excavator or what if I don't want to take it off the spot where it is working? So, I'll see if I can find a used, truck-mounted, 5-10 ton hydraulic lift for sale.

I want to thank everyone for tolerating my dumb questions. I have learned a great deal from everyone on this forum. Forgive me for using up your valuable time but it has been a positively wonderful learning experience. I'll do my best to refrain from asking too many more questions lest this thread, in fact, go on for years.

Thanks to everyone and all the best!

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
SOS stands for Scheduled Oil Sampling. I think you'd be very lucky to find one for ten dollars though, Around here it's in the mid $30s per sample.

They will analyse any lubricant from any machine, even from your car if you want. Most dealerships can also analyse fuel, coolant and greases.

The key to getting good data from oil sampling is to make your samples representative and consistent. To get them representative you need to make sure the lubricant is thoroughly mixed, achieved by running the compartment until it is warm, then take the sample from within, as near as you can, the middle of the reservoir. Consistency is achieved by using the same sampling technique each time you sample the compartment.

Sampling techniques include, in order of preference;

1. Live sampling. This is where a sample is taken from a valve located on one of the fluid's circulating lines. Obviously can only be used on systems with pressure circulation and pre-installed sampling points.

2. Vacuum pump. Can be used on most systems where you can get a piece of tube into the reservoir. Needs care that you don't scrape the tube on the tank wall and pick up crud from there. Best practice is to draw some fluid to flush the tube, throw it away then draw some more for the sample.

3. Catching the drain oil. Usually the most convenient for sampling engines without a live sampling point as the oil is usually being changed at the same time as the SOS. Needs more care than the other techniques by way of making sure the oil is thoroughly mixed and warm and the drain plug/valve is clean before you start. Also watch for crap from underneath the machine falling into the bottle. Let approximately half the oil drain then take the sample. Once again, consistency is the key. If you use the same technique every time, you will be OK.

Other things to watch out for are cross contamination; use new tubing every time and don't get any oil onto your sampling pump. Keep the lid of the bottle in a clean place whilst you are taking the sample and don't let dust or rain get in there.
 
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Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
SOS stands for Scheduled Oil Sampling. I think you'd be very lucky to find one for ten dollars though, Around here it's in the mid $30s per sample.

They will analyse any lubricant from any machine, even from your car if you want. Most dealerships can also analyse fuel, coolant and greases.

The key to getting good data from oil sampling is to make your samples representative and consistent. To get them representative you need to make sure the lubricant is thoroughly mixed, achieved by running the compartment until it is warm, then take the sample from within, as near as you can, the middle of the reservoir. Consistency is achieved by using the same sampling technique each time you sample the compartment.

Sampling techniques include, in order of preference;

1. Live sampling. This is where a sample is taken from a valve located on one of the fluid's circulating lines. Obviously can only be used on systems with pressure circulation and pre-installed sampling points.

2. Vacuum pump. Can be used on most systems where you can get a piece of tube into the reservoir. Needs care that you don't scrape the tube on the tank wall and pick up crud from there. Best practice is to draw some fluid to flush the tube, throw it away then draw some more for the sample.

3. Catching the drain oil. Usually the most convenient for sampling engines without a live sampling point as the oil is usually being changed at the same time as the SOS. Needs more care than the other techniques by way of making sure the oil is thoroughly mixed and warm and the drain plug/valve is clean before you start. Also watch for crap from underneath the machine falling into the bottle. Let approximately half the oil drain then take the sample. Once again, consistency is the key. If you use the same technique every time, you will be OK.

Other things to watch out for are cross contamination; use new tubing every time and don't get any oil onto your sampling pump. Keep the lid of the bottle in a clean place whilst you are taking the sample and don't let dust or rain get in there.

Thank you, Cmark:

Does everyone know about this stuff? I've never heard of "Scheduled Oil Sample" (SOS) before. That's the reason I have enjoyed this forum so much. I don't care who you are or your experience level, if you can't learn new things off this forum then, the only difference between you and a dead man is that you simply haven't fallen over yet.

Thank you again!

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 

John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
643
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
Cat is the only company I know of that can provide this sampling service. There may be others but I've not come across them. The last excavator I bought, ( not a cat), I asked the dealer can they offer a sampling service and they said that kind of thing is a bit beyond them, and it was main dealer (case). When pushed, they said I should go to cat if I want that kind of thing...

I've used the sos from cat, and was impressed by it. John.
 

John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
643
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
Cmark, do folks your way sample machines regularly?

Eng oil
Coolant
Hydraulic fluid (multiple points?)
Final drives
Slew motor xxxxxxxx
Diesel tank
Grease in the rotary? xxxxxxxx

Once a year for all of them? Plus eng oil everytime?

Cheers
 
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Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
Thank you, Cmark:

Does everyone know about this stuff? I've never heard of "Scheduled Oil Sample" (SOS) before. That's the reason I have enjoyed this forum so much. I don't care who you are or your experience level, if you can't learn new things off this forum then, the only difference between you and a dead man is that you simply haven't fallen over yet.

Thank you again!

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders

I'd say that everyone who deals with machinery on a professional level is familiar with lubricant analysis. SOS is just Cat's proprietary term for it. Saying that, Cat is the only heavy equipment manufacturer I'm aware of that encourages its dealers to offer the service in house. All others that I know of just send the samples to third party labs for analysis.

See www.noria.com for further reading on the subject.
 

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
Cmark, do folks your way sample machines regularly?

Eng oil
Coolant
Hydraulic fluid (multiple points?)
Final drives
Slew motor xxxxxxxx
Diesel tank
Grease in the rotary? xxxxxxxx

Once a year for all of them? Plus eng oil everytime?

Cheers

Going by the book;

Engine oil, every 250hrs aka every oil change.

Hydraulic, final drives, swing box, every 500hrs.

Coolant, every 1000hrs.

Fuel and grease, only if there's a problem.

This has to be tempered with some common sense though. Eg. if you've recently blown a hydraulic hose and lost most of the oil, there's little point in sampling it two days later. Just make a note of the hours on the oil on the next sample.
 
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ol'stonebreaker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
333
Location
Idaho
Occupation
retired
Passionhawk, just keep in mind the old saying: "The only dumb/stupid question is the one that wasn't asked". I imagine your questions have brought answers to others who were reluctant to ask. It doesn't really matter how long this thread goes on.
Mike
 

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
How many tons of ore an hour can you process?

Our small plant which includes a hopper with conveyor into a jaw crusher and another conveyor into a refining mill can process eight (8) tons per hour including the regrind. It's a very small mom and pop operation. We are very selective of what we send through. Most of the gold is in the quartz but it can also be found in the phyllites as much as 50 feet away from the main vein.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Passionhawk, just keep in mind the old saying: "The only dumb/stupid question is the one that wasn't asked". I imagine your questions have brought answers to others who were reluctant to ask. It doesn't really matter how long this thread goes on.
Mike

Well, Stonebreaker, I hope you're right about helping other people like me who never made their entire career sitting in a hard-leather seat pulling clutches. For my part, this forum has saved me from making some very serious (spelled CO$TLY) errors. I've got some mechanical men on line who are helping now and they are indispensable. Not-with-standing, a man needs to "inspect what he expects" and if you never got on the clue bus in relation to this equipment, it's hard to inspect what you know nothing about.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 

CavinJim

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Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
170
Location
Missouri
Jim, I have been following your thread with interest. I am a geologist with a bit of an interest in quartz mineralization. My specialty is karst geomorphology, but I have done some work on quartz mineralization as we have some iron ores here in the Ozarks which are associated with low-grade hydrothermal quartz. I look forward, with anticipation, to your mining operation! I think it would help folks appreciate the type of landscape you are working if you could post some photos of the mine site. I have a pretty good idea of the type of ground you are working just from your detailed descriptions--and I also think your choice of equipment is probably the right one. There's not going to be a perfect solution (unless you could invest a fortune, and not a small one!), but a combination of excavator and dozer will certainly be a good one. In years past, it would have been a track loader and dozer, but excavators have usurped loaders in many applications.

I'm curious--have there been any reports of placer deposits downstream from your place? If there were any, they were probably worked out a long time back, but I would be curious if there were any records.

Best of luck! --Cavin'
 

Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Jim, I have been following your thread with interest. I am a geologist with a bit of an interest in quartz mineralization. My specialty is karst geomorphology, but I have done some work on quartz mineralization as we have some iron ores here in the Ozarks which are associated with low-grade hydrothermal quartz. I look forward, with anticipation, to your mining operation! I think it would help folks appreciate the type of landscape you are working if you could post some photos of the mine site. I have a pretty good idea of the type of ground you are working just from your detailed descriptions--and I also think your choice of equipment is probably the right one. There's not going to be a perfect solution (unless you could invest a fortune, and not a small one!), but a combination of excavator and dozer will certainly be a good one. In years past, it would have been a track loader and dozer, but excavators have usurped loaders in many applications.

I'm curious--have there been any reports of placer deposits downstream from your place? If there were any, they were probably worked out a long time back, but I would be curious if there were any records.

Best of luck! --Cavin'

Dear CavinJim:

If I had known how much I would love geology, I would have went a different direction as a kid.

These hills rise up off of what was once the Great Lahontan Inland Sea. The basin was once a giant backwater bay - hundreds of miles square. The USGS has taken soil samples in the basinal terrane that originated in the Texas and Oklahoma Craton from ancient rivers that once ran from east to west - before the poles moved and they started running generally from north to south. Several land masses that separated from the incoming Pacific Plate during subduction, accreted to the north American plate not 18 miles away. Then, as the Sierra batholith began to form, the sediments on the ocean floor were crowded into wavy ribbons and began to overthrust one another. They were eventually completely overturned which created the cracks along the folds. During this time, there was mild metamorphic exposure along with low temperature heat and that is what created the shale, schist and phyillites. Granodiorite intrusives followed up the folded cracks and made it to the surface on several of the small hills.

Miners found these outcrops and followed the largest veins starting in 1892. Things were still quite productive up through the early 1940's but, with the advent of WWII, the feds outlawed all mining that was not supportive of the war effort (War Production Board Law 208). Mining ceased and did not resume. First one partner died and then another and it was all held up in the courts for years.

I came upon an almost identical scenario on the edge of the Russian Wilderness in Northern California. Same story. The formation was found almost 55 miles from the nearest town. They packed everything in by mule team but the formation was worth it. They took out over 12,000 OZ of Au before the same War Production Board Law 208 shut them down, too. Everything was blasted shut. Earlier this year, I was the first one up there. After 4 days of digging, we gained access into the main tunnel. It was all caved and the timbers (which were actual sawed logs) were somewhat intact and were mostly still in place. It was a very wet mine which is an extremely dangerous place to be pokin' around. We climbed over several rockfalls and little stuff was coming down the whole time. I whipped out my 3-pound and a chisel to take some samples and my son who was with me about shot his pants full. "Dad....DAD!!!! Dammit, you're gonna get us killed," he hissed in a whisper. I replied in a normal voice, "Jim, if it hasn't caved anymore than this in 71 years then, I think we're okay." My son closed the distance between us like a Ninja Warrior and put his hands over my mouth and whispered in my ear, "Dad, don't talk. Your low voice will cave the rock." I started to laugh out loud and he put his hands over my mouth again. About that time, a small rock bounced off my hard hat with a good plastic clank. His eyes got as wide and white as two Melmac plates. "Seeeeeee!" And so we left. We saw a California grizzly on the way in near the mine and I thought that scared him as much as anything. He was rollin in a snow drift when I said to the fellas, "Look!" He stood straight up when he heard my voice. Sucker looked 9-foot tall if he was an inch - standing above us on the snow drift. There were more of us than him so he took off on a run. But the mine - the mine was the worst for my son.

That is really a great mine but the area is administered by the U.S. Forest Service. Moreover, the property abuts the Federal Russian Wilderness Area and the Pacific Crest Trail goes through the edge of the claim. There's one of those Birkenstock wearin', alfalfa sprout farters up that trail every 15 minutes or so during the summer. Can you imagine the look on their faces after walking for 4-5 days through the wilderness - coming around a turn in the trail to see a big yeller Cat blowin' black diesel smoke and digging into the hillside? It would be "game on," for sure. I thought it over and realized the hell it would truly be to deal with the feds and also the environmentalists tokin' up their bongs full of Mary Jane and bein' half nutso. Discretion being the better part of valor, we left the property to the grizzly and headed back home to look elsewhere. Not-with-standing, that was God's Country. Big virgin Cedar trees, Blue Spruce, creeks, huge grassy glades and Mule deer everywhere. There was even a spring-fed lake. If I were younger, I would've went for it because there's a lot of serious gold right up next to the batholith on the southeast side of the restricted area. Even though it's a legal claim, about the time you walked a Cat up there, there'd be a lot of arrows in the air coming at a guy.

Found another spot in California right off the Yuba river. 52 acres and it's smack dead in the middle of where they found all the gold in the gravels at the Malakoff Works. Forest Service runs an Interpretive Trail through there with uniformed guides to show touristed flat-landers all the bad things the 49er miners did in the late 1800s. I just couldn't figure out a reasonable way to sneak a piece of yeller equipment onto that property either.

There's still lots of gold out west. All the easy stuff's been picked off the top of the ground. Now, you gotta dig for it - but it's still there. A guy just has to stay out of California . . . . you know, "The Golden State" where they don't allow mining anymore. Better end this before I show my skirts.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 
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Birken Vogt

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Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,324
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I live in the Yuba country you describe.

There are still quite a few gold miners out here. They mostly live in a tent, eat from a bag of hard beans, and drink the cheapest beer you can imagine. They look like a walking skeleton most times.

If you try to run a mine any bigger than a shovel full then you get tied up in permits for about 5-10 years until the money runs out.

However, it is hard to tell if someone is serious with a larger mine. I mentioned to one old miner (who has a real business on the property in addition to the mine) about one of these new mine startups being just a scam to get the investors' money.

He said "It is always a scam to get the investors' money"

After that I look at these mine startups with a different eye and it has served me well.

Unlike here, Nevada actually seems to encourage mining.
 

Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
I live in the Yuba country you describe.

There are still quite a few gold miners out here. They mostly live in a tent, eat from a bag of hard beans, and drink the cheapest beer you can imagine. They look like a walking skeleton most times.

If you try to run a mine any bigger than a shovel full then you get tied up in permits for about 5-10 years until the money runs out.

However, it is hard to tell if someone is serious with a larger mine. I mentioned to one old miner (who has a real business on the property in addition to the mine) about one of these new mine startups being just a scam to get the investors' money.

He said "It is always a scam to get the investors' money"

After that I look at these mine startups with a different eye and it has served me well.

Unlike here, Nevada actually seems to encourage mining.

Hello Birken:

I thought long and hard and can't add a thing that you didn't already say. Gold mining sounds so exciting and like a frontier adventure! It is both of those things. Also, a tremendous way to lose weight and stay cold. It is a hard way to make a living - unless you have a proven resource and an exceptional operating plan to take it from the ground and put it into your pocket.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 

oarwhat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
840
Location
buffalo,n.y.
Our small plant which includes a hopper with conveyor into a jaw crusher and another conveyor into a refining mill can process eight (8) tons per hour including the regrind. It's a very small mom and pop operation. We are very selective of what we send through. Most of the gold is in the quartz but it can also be found in the phyllites as much as 50 feet away from the main vein.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders

Maybe I'm missing something. If you can only process 8 tons an hour why are you looking into huge machines? I mean a Cat 345 will have 8 tons in a couple scoops. Just asking
 

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Maybe I'm missing something. If you can only process 8 tons an hour why are you looking into huge machines? I mean a Cat 345 will have 8 tons in a couple scoops. Just asking

Dear Oarwhat:

That's what I have right now for crushing and processing. We are not running everything through the crusher - just the quartzites and phyllites. As we uncover more source rock and veins using the equipment, we'll increase the capacity. Meanwhile, the rest (majority) either gets run through a closed-loop trommel or is overburden which is pushed to the side. As for the 345, I'll get a slender rock bucket and a hammer for pulling apart the seams. It comes with a big 62" bucket which will sit to the side. Way too big for what I need.

As for why the large machines, I need the breakout force on the excavator. The tractor? Well, the mineralization is a touch over a mile long and half a mile wide X 500-800' tall. The veins go down into the earth so there's a lot to move.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG Finders
 
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