d5 steering brake

[54j]

Hello, I need a bit of advice from people with experience. I've got a 1972 d5 (54j powershift) and have recently been "doing it up". The problem with the steering brakes are minor in that both sides seem to work fine when pulling the lever's, right side works fine when using the brake pedal and the left side works about 80% of the time when using the brake. Sometime's it just doesn't want to engage on the left hand brake.
Before I bought this machine, the left side wasn't working at all.
I've just had the back end off to give us full access to the brakes. There was a lot of old oil and grease in the left hand side brake area. Maybe 2-3 litres???...I drained out all the old muck and pressure cleaned it out. The mechanic that I had working on it adjusted both sides and said he didn't really need to adjust it much...we had the inspection plate off the steering clutches and both pistons seemed to be working fine and letting the oil in and engaged the arms equally on both sides. There would have been at best guess about5-6mm of lining on the brake bands themselves. We then eventually raised the machine on it's blade and rippers and both sides seem to engage ok. Once the machine had been finished and I was able to test it out in the dirt I realised that whilst it was much much better but not 100%.

Our theory is that perhaps it is simply that the brakebands have been impregnated with oil and crap over the years and so were slipping from time to time and not engaging. Short of pulling themout I would realy appreciate input from those that can point me in the right direction. I'm not a mechanic...so be patient.

with thanks

 

[MattR]

I believe those should be wet clutches at that time period. It should have oil all around them. Most were operated from trans pressure. I have encountered bad seals in the slave, most often caused by a final pinion bearing going and causing the whole works not to sit straight. Therefore causing the big piston seals to run untrue and wear prematurley. You don't necessarily have to be hearing noise from the pinion bearing for it to be getting loose enough to be causing this. Ours never did, but was the cause. Often the piston itself needs replacing as well.

 

[54j]

Hi Mattr...thanks for the reply. Like I said..I'm no mechanic but I think it's a dry run system. Pretty similar to a drum brake on an old car. I guess thats the question..to my eyes it doesn't look complicated at all and so am at a bit of a loss as to what could be wrong. There is a hydraulic mechanism in the steering clutch. But like I said, we took the cover plate off this and the pistons inside all seemed to work ok and the yoke assembly that engages the brakes functioned evenly on both sides. The oil and and gunk inside the left hand side "cavity" was more a result of 40 years of neglect than anything else I THINK???...a drip here...a drip there. I thank you for your time to respond.

 

[Old Magnet]

The 54J has dry brakes and steering clutches. It has the top mounted hydraulic booster for steering clutches like the old D6.
Most common source of brake and steering clutch oil contamination is leaking finial drive pinion seals. The pinion seals are mounted high enough to dribble on the drums and be carried around as they rotate. Also the bevel gear shaft seals can leak in to the adjacent compartments and between both sources, accumulate enough to be picked up by the drums if not drained regularly.

 

[54j]

hello old magnet....yep..thats sounding right to me. Now there was some work done on the right hand side and I "think" it may have been to do with the bevel gear shaft seals???..ok...what are your thoughts on my idea of the oil impregnating the bands and hence them "slipping" from time to time...if I am on the right track is there any way of solving the problem short of replacing the bands?...Thanks also for your time. It's hard to get good advice from anyone who actually knows these machines.

 

[Old Magnet]

If the seals are leaking, the damage is done and recovery means repairs. You can try washing the compartments by partially filling them with solvent and running the tractor back and forth. May take several cycles to get the oil and crud out. Also can pull the inspection covers and empty a few cans of brake cleaner on the bands as best you can. These are "tongue in cheek" solutions.....never did anything great for me...but worth a shot. Problem is once the brake linings have become saturated there's no going back. It's a little late now but when you get it turned around you need to do the dry compartment drain plug trick of drilling a 1/4 inch hole in the plugs and install 3/16 in. cotter pin wigglers to keep them drained.

 

[wsw]

Anyone have problems with D4G hydrostatic drive

 

[loggah]

I got a 78 D5 96j model that i use quite a bit and oil does get into the clutch/brake compartment a bit from the bevel gear compartment after a while ,it only takes a little to contaminate the brake bands. Now you have to go back in time with these machines and do as the old cat manuals say ,pour a couple gallons of gasoline into the compartment make sure all the holes in the bottom are plugged and run the machine for a few hours or a day and pull the bottom plug and let the case drain. the gasoline film left in the case will evaporate and the clutches, brakes will usually work fine afterward. Don

 

[jimrr]

I've had to do this, fill it as full as possible though. One spark and .......... talk about a ''hot seat'' !!

 

[54j]

Hello Loggah..Thanks for your reply. Thats interesting...so it is quite poss that it's just the bands that are stuffed. Not too sure I like the idea of filling it with petrol though...diesel ok but petrol???....I can see the cartoons now! Will the bands "clean up" with use or will they really need to be replaced?....Thanks for your help

 

[loggah]

The old cat and allis-chalmers manuals say gasoline,just bolt the cover back down tight theres not enough oxygen in there to create any explosion. diesel oil will not evaporate you wont gain anything by using it ,it leaves a film like any oil does. Don

 

[Old Magnet]

From my Cat manuals:
WARNING Washing should be done when the compartments are cool and well ventilated to avoid the possibility of an explosion. Kerosene is suggested.
1. Remove the brake adjustment covers and pour enough non-inflammable cleaning fluid into each compartment so that each steering clutch brake drum will dip into the fluid.
2. Operate the machine back and forth for five minutes without releasing the steering clutches.
3. Drain compartments.
4. Repeat proceedure with fresh solvent, this time applying the brakes occasionally.
5. Repeat as required.
6. When done be sure to lube steering clutch release bearings.

 

[loggah]

i was looking at my manuals from the 40,s and they say gas, but kero would work im sure. i have used gasoline on a number of tractors i had and never had any problems. from a 1936 RD-7 ,up thru 2 2u model D8's and a 13A D8, a 18A and 19A D9,s and this D5 96J , and a couple allis - chalmers model "K's,just saying i never had any explosions, no smoking either !!! Don

 

[Farmer]

they say kero because when the tractor was built kero was a quarter the price of petrol (gasoline) but now its 3 times the price
so i use petrol.