Cutting edges and tires..........

[gilledp]

Guys,

There is a handy MG tire guide created by Caterpillar. It covers the different tread patters, radial vs. bias, load factors and available MG tire selections. There are many difference tires choices in both radial and bias - and they all have difference characteristics. Some bias have more side wall stiffness than radials which may be preferred in some applications while in other applications maximum sidewall deflection is desired.

I tried to upload the booklet but was restricted by file size. If you would like the Tire Application Guide drop me an email.

Thanks

 

[smooth]

"ovrszd" I have had the same thing happen with the ice build up and the tranny going into limp mode. Dealer came out and put some sort of braces around the solenoids on the back of the transmission it was supposed to be a factory update. This was on a 2005 D if yours is newer it might already have them. At any rate these still did not do the trick. Ended up taking the belly pan off so as not to give the ice anywhere to build up from. That seemed to do the trick have'nt had a problem since. 2yrs. On another note. I know what you mean when the tire chains drop inside the lugs. Its like you don't even have chains on. If you rebuild your tire chains yourself you might want to try this. On each cross bar or every other one instead of a single cross bar put two bars. It works better to have the next size bigger link that hooks to the side chain but it can be done with what comes standard. Now even if one drops down there is no room for the other so it stays where it is supposed to. Works good!!!! They are just a lot heavier when it comes to putting them on.

 

[ovrszd]

"ovrszd" I have had the same thing happen with the ice build up and the tranny going into limp mode. Dealer came out and put some sort of braces around the solenoids on the back of the transmission it was supposed to be a factory update. This was on a 2005 D if yours is newer it might already have them. At any rate these still did not do the trick. Ended up taking the belly pan off so as not to give the ice anywhere to build up from. That seemed to do the trick have'nt had a problem since. 2yrs. On another note. I know what you mean when the tire chains drop inside the lugs. Its like you don't even have chains on. If you rebuild your tire chains yourself you might want to try this. On each cross bar or every other one instead of a single cross bar put two bars. It works better to have the next size bigger link that hooks to the side chain but it can be done with what comes standard. Now even if one drops down there is no room for the other so it stays where it is supposed to. Works good!!!! They are just a lot heavier when it comes to putting them on.

I rerouted my solenoid wiring and extended the metal shield that was already there. Also built and added side covers. Didn't have problems after that.

Good idea on the chains. I saw a neighboring township put crossbars on every side link which helped a lot. Like you said though, you ain't gonna grab those chains and throw them on top of the tire!!!

 

[tireman]

I already drove the blade around but only got one side to break loose from twisting and breaking flat on one sidelol Whats crazy was the idiot poser that came out to allegely dismount the tire, he thought it was like a tractor tire with no rings or oring, its a 5 piece wheel with oring to seal the bead, he suggested taking removing the wheel with a bead removal tool, so he went back to town to borrow one, anyway he came back with one for a tractor, a manual set up, it would not work as it does not push the bead enuff, its stroke was too short the the 18x25 tire!! It takes one made for the actual job, omg, i could just see this idiot trying to take wheel apart and reassemble it, i told him it needed a new oring and a ring safetly lock that was missing, his suggestion was to call the dealer, I told him the dealer is you!! Anyways he gave up with no chargelol I been measuring the 20,5 and looks like i will get one mounted and try it on the rear to see how the clearance issue is, whats crazy is trying to figure out if a newer 16g with 23,5 x25's had what width wheel and what offset??? I am going up to San Antone Tex this morning and try to see if Holt Cat has a new 16 in the yard to spy on, actually while looking thru the cat 16 parts book i find the machine had 24 inch wheels on the front and 25 inchers on the rear from the factory, so the saga continues, found 4 or 5 more used tire dealers last night to call and beg for tires today when i get home, still up in the air if i will just get to good used at $1250 each at 50 percent 18x25's mining tires or new dirt L2 type bias 16 plys 20,5x25's at $1000 each new, I just wish i new if they would work or the rear drives without hitting and also if they will fit on my 18x25 wheel, the book says the 18x25 tire needs a 13 inch wide wheel, the book says the 20,5x25 tire needs a 17 inch wide wheel, question is can a person make a 20,5 fit on the narrower wheel n be ok??? 4 inch difference could lead to hell on earth trying to get the rings back on without a tire press of some kind to get room for the rings to fit on the beadlol

To answer your question,I would not waste the time putting a 20.5 on the narrower wheel.You will have a hard time getting the wheel assembly back together without a boom to press it together.Besides,and most significant,the 20.5 will not perform well,because the beads will be too close together-preventing a proper contact patch(tire footprint),which will greatly reduce traction and hours of service.Yes,they can be mounted on the narrower wheel.No,you won't be ok.In order to get the shoulder lugs on the ground you'd have to under-inflate them,which is a no-no.As far as radial vs. bias-that's a no brain-er.RADIALS are king.PERIOD!(Unless you're in sharp rocks tearing them up,in which case it's cheaper to tear up rags)The main thing with radials(as with any tire in any application) is proper inflation.You want to run 30-35psi in radials on a grader.If it's got no squat,you've got too much air in them.Had one county gut argue with me,said his grader got too squirrely on him going 40mph on asphalt roads unless he had 50psi in the tires.Well,in the first place the machine is not made to run 40mph down the highway,even though it'll do it.Second of all,you won't have even half the contact patch you should with that much air in them.Got all pissed off at me 'cuz I refused to put more air in them.:BangheadTough titty,I told him.I do my job right.:cool2Anyway,if you want to maximize your tires performance,from traction provided to impact break/flat resistance to hours of service,keep the proper air pressures in them.If anyone wants a good 14.00-24 bias,I recommend the 16 ply Firestones.Otherwise,Michelin all the way.The wide base tires(17.5,20.5,23.5) offer all the advantages that have been reported on here-better traction,floatation,etc.,etc.With the Cat 16,I recommend the 23.5R25.You'll definitely need new wheels,but you'll probably never have to buy tires again,providing no one tears one of them up.The 23.5-25 replaced the 18.00-25 on the 16's, and the 20.5-25 replaced the 16.00-24 on the 14.Best of luck to you.
The old tireman.

 

[CatGrader]

Hey tireman. I found that the more pressure you put into a radial the quicker you bounce lol :drinkup

 

[tireman]

Hey tireman. I found that the more pressure you put into a radial the quicker you bounce lol :drinkup

:thumbsup:iagree

 

[goodwin]

we run two old graders on our cattle station, doing fence lines, fire breaks, and roads,running 1400x24.we put solids on the front four years ago now(foam filled 24 ply rock lug bias ply) we had heaps of flats before that, almost daily. since then maybe a couple a year!
i would recommend them to anyone doing bush work in stake country, they are expensive to buy but cheap to run!
i am a firm believer in rag tyres on trucks, and light vehicles, we get no time out of radials due to sidewall punctures, but we have had a dream run out of radials on the grader, we got some worn casings of a contractor, and theyve been great, the only tyres weve changed in the last 2 years were rags.
my point is that i have changed my tune on this, and will look for more radials in the future.
thinking back a lot of the flats on rags were straight through the tread, the steel seems to resist this better.
Goodwin

 

[martinf]

New to this site...great site.
I've got an old AC grader with 13 x 24's on it and I should really replace them all. Man, I wasn't prepared for the price! Thing is I only use this old girl for maintaining my mile-long road and helping with neighbors so I've got no working budget for tires, especially on a grader I paid a thousand bucks for a few years ago. I'll quit whining and ask my questions:
1-what do you guys think about the tires I see on ebay (they're in the 450 - 550 range with free shipping)? I'm wondering about the quality and my road is gravel and some big chucks of rock now and then.
2-Any ideas as to where I might find used tires out here in the Pacific N.W.?
thanks for any assistance.
~martin

 

[tireman]

New to this site...great site.
I've got an old AC grader with 13 x 24's on it and I should really replace them all. Man, I wasn't prepared for the price! Thing is I only use this old girl for maintaining my mile-long road and helping with neighbors so I've got no working budget for tires, especially on a grader I paid a thousand bucks for a few years ago. I'll quit whining and ask my questions:
1-what do you guys think about the tires I see on ebay (they're in the 450 - 550 range with free shipping)? I'm wondering about the quality and my road is gravel and some big chucks of rock now and then.
2-Any ideas as to where I might find used tires out here in the Pacific N.W.?
thanks for any assistance.
~martin

Stay away from the e-bay garbage.Check with some different commercial tire dealers.I used to work for Puget Sound Tire,back in the early 90's,but they sold out to GCR later in the decade.Not sure where you are,exactly,but look for a Les Schwab or Sam's.NorthWest Retreaders used to cap a lot of those tires,and that's an avenue I'd recommend for you.Get yourself some 16 ply retreaded casings and you should have no troubles.Always remember,cheap tires are cheap for a reason.Good luck to you.Let me know how your search turns out.

 

[pabear52]

Hey Goodwin, gotta have steel mate no doubt about it. We did a fibre optic job from SA up into the Territory in 2010 and punctures from that spikey wood up there drove us nuts. In desperation we put solids, cost alot of money for the product on the backhoe and wished we did same for the Cat 163h grader it would have been cheap! I just couldnt believe how hard and sharp that timber was up there, just like sharks teeth. Hate to think what would happen if you came off your motor bike onto some of it! If you saw a piece of this timber, you made sure when you were turning round or working anywhere that you did not run over any of it if you could avoid it; puncture guaranteed!

 

[pabear52]

Just remembered. We used to use Bandag caps on 1400 x 24 Michelin or Bridgestone cases years ago. Stopped a lot of punctures for sure working in shot rock with 140g. Not much grip for wet conditions and materials but almost eliminated puctures unless thru the bead or sidewall which was rare.

 

[Queenslander]

Fast forward nearly four years and 2500 hrs. and we have worn these tyres out without a single flat.
May not wear as well as a radial, but miles ahead on downtime for the bush work we do with this machine.
We once put our newer grader ,with 17.5 radials,in the bush and staked a tyre within half a day.
Four new ones the same going on the drive.
Cheers, Greg

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Greg

Thanks for the update on the tires. It looks like you got your money's worth out of them.

I didn't see where you said what brand they were.

I put some Birla (sp?) tires on my 14G a little over a year ago. They have about the same tread pattern, and are heavy, I think 24 ply, in 20.5x25. They were priced right, and have ate tons of rock with no flats and vever little chunking.

 

[Queenslander]

Jerry,
They're made by BKT, an Indian company manufacturing mainly off highway tyres.
24 Kevlar plies, bead to bead.
Greg
PS. I see Birla tyres are also made in India

 

[pedrocar]

Hi Silveroddo tyres we use 14.00 and 17.5 the 1400 s in rail ballast and softer clay for better traction and turning running y67 yokohamas and 17.5s Double Coins on roadworks bigger track less tyre marks good in sand to but still harder to steer/turn Cutting edges 6inch x5/8 high carbon found are best end up throwing less away 8 inch are a pain in the bum heavier and often find youl get hung up trying to load on a float for transport have a look at Sharq edges and Sandvic 2000 we use these with good results

 

[pedrocar]

Queenslander are they Goodyears rock tyres ran them on a 12g in rail ballast great tyre never a flat

 

[SharqAttack]

Tires and Cutting Edges

Hey there,
looking for any words of wisdom on grader tires and cutting edges.
I've got 14.00x24 tires on a cat 120. Right now I've got the typical "tractor tire" type tread,but i see the municiple blades tend to run a tire pattern that looks like somthing I've seen on dump trucks and was wondering if this "road pattern" really lasts longer or has other advantages?

Also I've been using a standard 6" cutting edge (7 footer, standard cat part #) I can get a pretty good deal on them (last 4 individual cutting edges I was able to get for about $520.00), and have been getting about 300 miles to a set, does that sound about right? talking to the guys at the county they really like their carbide tips but I havn't really looked into them because the roads I've been doing are forestry roads and pretty rocky which I'm told is hard on the carbide cutting edges.

I'm new to this and just trying to avoid wasting time and money when possible, its time for tires, I've got 2 new recaps of the tractor tread and it looks like about 450-500 apiece for the other 4 I need to round out the set (mounted, not installed) is this the way to go or should I look into other options? I priced some radials and they were in the 800-900 range.

This is such a great question. I know this is an old post but it is very important, as you all know. Cutting edges can play an important role in the life of your tires, and when solely comparing cutting edges to tire wear life there is one huge factor. Down pressure. The thickness and edge shape (rounded, bull nose, etc) will play a major part in how much down pressure you have to apply when you run into areas of road that need to be cut and properly mixed to get a good solid pack. It is very similar to a shovel when thinking about it a thin shovel requires little force to go into the ground, a thicker shovel will require much more force to do the same amount of work and will wear the other parts of the shovel faster. Same idea can be transferred to motor grader, the thicker your edge the more down pressure you are going to need and the faster your tires will wear. I understand the elements affect wear life as well, but I wanted to just focus on tires with cutting edges. If you really want your tires to last do not just focus on your edge wear life, a carbide will last a long time but you do pay for it upfront, it is fragile if you hit a rock, if you wear the steel on the back side the carbide can start to slide out, and they are thick and rounded not ideal for cutting. They will require a lot of down pressure and that means high RPM's, and added stress to your tires, circle, and other parts of your machine. Curious to see what everyone thinks of my thoughts here.