Crack in water cart tank

[Cliffy]

Got a few cracks in our old mack water cart. Had a few repairs and thinking of doing it properly.
Thinking drill end of crack, v it out. Grind flat and plate over top with some old steel plate.
Am i on right track or an overkill?

 

[Welder Dave]

Looks like it has been repaired multiple times. I'd grind all the old welds flat and run a downhand 6010 in the groove you ground. 6010 is the best if there's any rust or other crap in the steel. Then grind the weld flat looking for any pin holes. Dye penetrant would be an easy way to check for leaks especially if you have access inside the tank. Then you could use a wire brush on a grinder or a flap disc to clean the inside of the tank and check for other problem areas. Once it was cleaned you could spray the developer on the outside of the tank and go back inside and spray the area with the penetrant. If you had a helper would make it easier. Any big leaks would show up almost instantly but wait a few minutes and you'd know if there's leaks. If you can't go in the tank, you have to use the penetrant, let it soak in, then use the cleaner and then spray the developer. Any pin holes will show up. It's best to have it leak free. After that cut a patch plate at least 1/2" bigger all around the area. Once the patch is welded (I'd use downhand 6010 as well) you could use the dye penetrant again to insure the patch won't leak if the old repaired area springs a leak. I'd make the patch oval shaped and have it about 1/4" in from the end of the tank to allow a nice fillet weld. I'm guessing it's not a big concern to have a patch on the outside of the tank. 3/16" thick steel would make a good patch. You could spray a light primer coat on the area before you put the patch on and just clean it off where the patch will be welded. They make weldable primer too but I don't think you really need it. It is best to spray some kind of rust proofing on ground steel. The downhill 6010 would provide a good strong weld and is fairly easy for someone with welding experience. Mig could be used too, just need to make sure to grind the starts and stops and start at the 12 o'clock position and start the weld going the opposite way on the existing weld you ground. Probably want to grind the tacks slightly concave as well. You'd weld from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock going clockwise and then weld from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock going counter clockwise or in the opposite order. Might be better to go counter clockwise first because it won't be as hot and you don't want to burn the edge at the end of the tank off. It's kind of the same way pipelines are welded with 6010 or other xx10 rods.

 

[Cliffy]

Thanks dave. Was hoping you would have some input.
I dont have 6010 rods.
I have 6013, 16tc (7018?)and 18tc(8018?) rods.
Also have mig with gasless fluxcore.
What would you pick be?
Yep you are right doesn’t matter what it looks like. Just has to hold water and hopefully not crack.

 

[Welder Dave]

Thanks, it's nice someone appreciates my advice. What welder do you have? No to the flux-core. 6011 would be another good choice because it produces strong welds going downhill. You can usually buy 6011 in small packages too. Other rods basically suck for downhill. Uphill you'd be likely to burn through. I'd use 1/8" but 3/32" could also work but wouldn't have as big of weld. 6010/6011 have a rougher looking bead and a little more spatter but don't have a lot of slag to get in the way. They can burn through some of the slag too because they have deep penetration. To use them you usually do a slight back and forth whipping motion or in this case an up and down whipping motion. Some people drag them but usually run pretty hot to do that. You establish the puddle and go down about 2 rod widths and then back about a rod width on to the crater you just made. They are referred to as fast freeze rods. Properly done looks like a stack of dimes laying on a table overlapping each other. You're digging a bit of groove and then going back to fill the groove you just made. I forgot to mention 6010/6011 work good for filling gaps because you can basically put a bunch of tacks over each other without having to clean the slag. They're easy to strike an arc with. Once the gap is filled you clean and/or grind the weld and run a normal weld over top of it. You might have to do this on the groove you ground.

 

[Cliffy]

250amp honda welder generator. That has been abused and bastardised. But she lays a good bead.
And a kempi 170 mig.
Ill chase some rods up and give it a go.
Had a look at what i have in shed.
12p is equivalent of 6013
16tc is 7016
18tc is 7018.
Probably should of had a look before I posted above.

 

[.RC.]

Looks like it has been repaired multiple times. I'd grind all the old welds flat and run a downhand 6010 in the groove you ground. 6010 is the best if there's any rust or other crap in the steel.

As a general rule 6010/6011 is a rare welding rod in Australia, much like 7018.

If you go into a welding shop for electrodes you generally have a choice of 6013 or 7016. You can get everything else, it is just not common.

I have not really understood the love for either of those rods. After some years of being on the internet are reading all about this magical 6010 rod (after many years of only using 6013 on a piddly little home transformer welder) I ended up with a small Miller engine welder and got a packet of 6010 rods. They really were handy things to have and I really liked them. I would call them the farmers friend, far better then 6013 or 6012. Some dirty greased filled broken part. We all know what farmers are like. Half a grind if you are lucky, and start welding, then add more weld for good luck, and then a bit more just in case.

These days I see flux core mig everywhere on farms, and I think it has lowered welding skills, there are crap highly porous welds galore. At least with a stick a crap weld looked crap, while a crap MIG weld can look half decent and be worse then the crap stick weld.

 

[Vetech63]

I'm wondering how many holes I could blow into that with my 1/8 7018 stick rod.

 

[Welder Dave]

That's a good welder and has DC current which is much better. Your Mig would be a good machine too if you had solid wire and shielding gas for it. Other countries tend to use different rods. The 6013 used in Europe and other countries is different from the 6013 in N. America. Here it's really frowned upon by experienced welders unless you're welding sheet metal. I typically use 6010/6011 and 7018. That's what keep some of on hand. The odd time I'll use 7014. It would be great if you could get some 6010 or 6011 and a run a few beads with it and post the pics. Then I could help you to get the right technique to run it. A lot of times the person welding just needs to make minor adjustments to get a good weld.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'm wondering how many holes I could blow into that with my 1/8 7018 stick rod.

99 holes is this tank I'm repairing, 99 holes is this tank
burn some more and blow some more and 100 holes is this tank I'm repairing
100 holes in this tank I'm repairing....

 

[Welder Dave]

As a general rule 6010/6011 is a rare welding rod in Australia, much like 7018.

If you go into a welding shop for electrodes you generally have a choice of 6013 or 7016. You can get everything else, it is just not common.

I have not really understood the love for either of those rods. After some years of being on the internet are reading all about this magical 6010 rod (after many years of only using 6013 on a piddly little home transformer welder) I ended up with a small Miller engine welder and got a packet of 6010 rods. They really were handy things to have and I really liked them. I would call them the farmers friend, far better then 6013 or 6012. Some dirty greased filled broken part. We all know what farmers are like. Half a grind if you are lucky, and start welding, then add more weld for good luck, and then a bit more just in case.

These days I see flux core mig everywhere on farms, and I think it has lowered welding skills, there are crap highly porous welds galore. At least with a stick a crap weld looked crap, while a crap MIG weld can look half decent and be worse then the crap stick weld.

Solid wire Mig is notorious for cold lap with inexperienced welders. It's the reason Lincoln was so late getting into Mig. The weld looks great but there's no fusion under it on 1 side of the joint. You see it on cheaply made implements and stuff out of China. Some people think 6010 is a bad rod because it has more spatter and is rough looking. It was never meant to be super smooth but if you look at a pipeline welded with it, it's a work of art. That's where the term stack of dimes comes from.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F9je50a27cic61.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dc0171b21bff8ab1ec9e64a9bab7531f44a6c6dd2

 

[Coaldust]

I’d probably do a section repair, vs a lap patch. I wouldn’t waste time welding that crack. I’ve had to re-do many lap patch fixes, when they continue to crack through.

But, I’m just a dirty old, tanker guy.
Sometimes, I don’t shower.
I wear a blue collar.
Make my money by the hour.

If that crack be drippin’ , don’t be trippin’.

Knowwhatimsayin?

 

[Welder Dave]

I wouldn't have ground the crack so deep but it's already done. No big deal, the tank already leaked. I don't know how experienced the OP is and it's just a non potable (I think) water tank not an oil or fuel tank. I suggested a simpler way to do it but cutting the whole bad section out is another option. Being right at the end of the tank makes it a bit more tricky to do. If the steel was still good 3/8" or 1/2" away from the end you could leave it and just make a small new piece for the bad section. You'd still have to have good leak proof welds. The best way would be to weld on the inside and outside. Putting a patch over the bad section you wouldn't have to do any welding inside the tank. Doing something with the crack would be better than just putting a patch over it. Even using epoxy inside the tank would help so the patch could mostly act as reinforcement. Probably want to do that after welding. Knowing what condition the steel is like around the bad section would better help determine the best repair method. If it's all rusted and ready to fail anyway, cut it out. If the rest of the tank is in poor shape put a patch on it and hope it lasts as long as you need it.

 

[Coaldust]

Hey, we have two water truck threads happening. That’s awesome. I love anything with a leaky tank.

Water Truck Chassis

What's everyones favorite chassis for a tandem axel water truck? And Why? Everything we currently have is Freightliner, but I am always open to new thoughts. https://watertrucksupply.com/

www.heavyequipmentforums.com

 

[Cliffy]

im just an ex fitter who now chases cattle. Struggle with vertical welds. Going to town this afternoon so hopefully they have them in stock.

 

[Coaldust]

Everything is better with some cows around. Living in town really gets me down.

 

[Welder Dave]

Downhill 6010/6011 is pretty easy because they fast freeze and there's not a lot of slag to get in the way or run into the puddle. The arc pushes it back. You can get an idea in the pic. I linked above, 2 steps forward, 1 step back, 2 steps forward, 1 step back... almost the same as running flat but you point the rod up about 15 deg's. Do some practicing on something similar to get the hang of it.

 

[Welder Dave]

Hey, we have two water truck threads happening. That’s awesome. I love anything with a leaky tank.

Water Truck Chassis

What's everyones favorite chassis for a tandem axel water truck? And Why? Everything we currently have is Freightliner, but I am always open to new thoughts. https://watertrucksupply.com/

www.heavyequipmentforums.com

I don't like leaking gas tanks or hyd. tanks. Gas tanks because they can blow up and hyd. tanks or any oil tanks because the oil gets into steel. You have burn it out and sometimes it still messes with the weld. Diesel tanks aren't too bad but are mostly aluminum. I've only ever welded a couple for a guy I know with a couple trucks. However I know a guy who has a thriving business repairing and making new aluminum diesel tanks. He also makes special awards like silver and bronze hockey sticks for the NHL. He is the original silver stick maker although some idiot in Ontario claims to be. They are solid polished stainless steel. He made a very special one for Barrack Obama that the Stanley Cup winners presented to him when they were invited to the White House. He has a couple pics. of Obama admiring it. It's pretty cool but I couldn't make out everything engraved on it. A few years he one waiting to be picked up. They are pretty heavy and exact copies of the players game stick. He gets a game stick supplied to copy it.

 

[Cliffy]

Joys of living in the scrub. Only stock 12p and 16tc rods.
Also sold out of weld through primer.

 

[Queenslander]

I’ve never had long lasting results welding cracks on our water truck… might be just my welding skills.
Patches tend to work better..but look daggy if you start to accumulate a few.
You might have seen this stuff already Cliffy, but it is the duck’s nuts if you want to seal a leak from the inside.
Far better than all the expensive cartridge varieties.
Looks like the old black jack tar that used to be around but sets like rubber and stays flexible for a lifetime.

https://duram.com.au/product/duram-195-waterproofing-membrane/

 

[IceHole]

Can you get inside?

Our tankers have a ~2ft fill hole so can go in to clean, fully drain,, and winterize it.
Have welded a couple inside. Kinda sucks without a respirator.

I had a full load one morning. Just leaving the fire plug and it's full to the brim. Jackass in a convertible cut me off cause had to get in front of the slow truck then slammed the brakes and stopped short of the yellow stoplight.

I stood on the brakes as to not run throughhis Miata. Like 300 gallons of water flew out of the fill hole, over my cab and directly into his car.
Was well worth water in my lap from my open winter to see him about floating in his seat.