Completely new at this :/

[Delmer]

Maybe the problem is he's talking about building a dam, and the rest of us are talking about how best to drain it?

 

[Tinkerer]

That "pathway" you show would require a retaining wall on the house side of it.
Otherwise you will have to create as slope to the basement door that even a goat would have problems going up and down.

I would remove the basement door, repair the wall where it was and fill the entire void with fill dirt.
Then you have easy access from the front yard to the pool and your water problems are gone forever.
It would also eliminate easy and unseen entry for any home invaders (burglers).

 

[Project-man]

Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions......after staking out the potential pool pathway, the amount of material needed to create the pathway would be substantial, the retaining wall would need to be raised and access into the basement would be extremely restrictive due to the steep bank created by the new elevated pathway.

Maybe my best and least disruptive drainage solution is to save my money and have an excavation outfit install a very large catch basin in the concrete apron in front of the garage/ basement door, bring in a very large excavator, trench and lay a 6"or 8" solid drain pipe to the hill side. Tomorrow I will measure the distance from the drain to the side of the hill and try to rough figure how deep this trench will need to be dug for the proper drain pipe pitch.....I'm already anticipating the trench will need to be very deep by the time the excavator makes it to the hill side.....

 

[skyking1]

you are overthinking all that "large" stuff in your post.
Do you have a stringline, a level, and some posts? If you had a string level that would be awesome, but not necessary.
Pound a post in where you think the pipe is heading. It does not need to be all the way there, just along the way in the right direction.
Get it good and firm, then tape another post to it to make it taller. ( this part is just a wild arse guess on my part.)
Pound a post in next to the existing catch basin. Put it on the side away from the house.
Tie the stringline to the posts, and then adjust it until it measures level with your level held next to it.
Now you can measure down to the catchbasin.
Add 1 foot for the pipe.
Let's say it is 5' for that stringline to clear the bump. Once again, a wild guess on my part.
Add the foot.
Now you can measure down anywhere along that string, take that number and subtract it from 6 and that is your cut.
You can paint those cut numbers under the string and have a good idea of how much work there is.
Of course you'd need to add a little slope. 1% is plenty for a storm pipe.
That is 1' per 100'.
If you want to see actual cuts including that slope, adjust the string accordingly.
Measure the distance between the posts, do the math, and lower the string at the downhill end the appropriate amount.
A 6" pipe will carry away a Isht-ton of water @1%.
IMO a 4" would be plenty. It is a whole lot more than no pipe at all

 

[Tinkerer]

I'm looking at this photo and I see a really simple and small grading job to get the water to run to the driveway. Not onto the driveway drain, but to run the water past it.
To minimize yard damage, install a 6 inch pipe with a catch basin and grate on the outfall end of it.
Can you post a photo of the swale from the driveway to the ravine or whatever it is ?
It doesn't make any sense to me to dig a trench straight away from the basement door through the elevation the the pool shed is on.

 

[Project-man]

Thanks a ton Captain for the information on how to accurately measure the cut and depth necessary to tie in a direct drain line from the basement catch basin to the hill side. I wish I had more time to tinker with your survey directions but since we're heading to Canada to see 2 of our 7 grandchildren, I don't want to start the measuring process and then stop in the middle of it for travel.

But before I leave, I do want to ball park the distance from the catchbasin to the hill side and an approximate depth the catchbasin is in relation to the average height of the side yard above it. Because I'm not good at this, I estimate the excavator cut would be deep because the catchbasin is already @ 10' or more below the side yard elevation and to make the 100' - 1' slope ratio it would be deeper still ending at the hill side....

All of the posts have been extremely helpful and I think by the time I get back from our Canada trip, I should be able to come up with a good rough estimate of what it would take to complete this drainage problem even if it costs more than building a berm, swale or completely tearing up the yard for a total regrading project.......

 

[Project-man]

Since my wife's flight was delayed for several hours, I was able to do some rough measurements in my back yard....first I discovered the catch basin is 6'6" below the highest area of the existing grade in front of the retaining wall. Taking the path of least resistance and a relatively straight cut would have a run of @ 180' to the hill side for discharge.

So if I'm figuring this out roughly, an excavator would start at the present catch basin spot, start digging 1-2' below the catch basin depth removing more material as it moves up the hill into the side yard. Then the operator needs to know how deep to dig the cut so that the stub of the drain pipe will pop out 9-10' below the ridge of the side hill when the trenching is finished. Does that sound reasonable?

I would get some quotes and opt for a much larger rectangular catch basin to handle more water. I would probably opt out to solid 6" piping and never have to worry about floods or mice again.

Could this trenching work be done with a backhoe that has an extension on it's bucket or would a small/medium excavator need to be used to dig at these depth?

Thanks again.....you all are helping me make progress and I'm learning a lot from this forum.....

 

[Willie B]

In my experience a full size backhoe digs deeper than a mini excavator. I have a headfull of stories when my backhoe (22 feet reach from the swing tower pivot), outreached & outlifted a mini excavator. Most compelling was last fall when a customer wanted to borow his neighbor's mini to install a generator. He was nearby, I could easily dig with my backhoe, but he preferred to borrow the mini. He was going to operate the mini ex. , but he developed back problems & said he'd hire his friend to run it. His friend & I have a lot of history, we don't like each other. When the friend declined, I admit I was releived. I ran the digger.

First day was uneventful, digging 30 feet of 30" deep from the house winding through shrubbery to the generator stand wasn't worse than with my backhoe. Digging 24" deep 150 feet up a steep lawn to the propane tank wasn't worse.

The hole for the tank 12' long, 5' wide, 6' deep was a stretch! I found I couldn't see the bottom of the hole. With my backhoe I could set the tractor in one place, dig the whole hole, with nearly all of the bottom visible. Mini excavator, I dug almost all of it blind. The tracks were on solid ground, the blade offering support, it was necessary to dig straight below me, lack of reach. Mini works best sitting firmly on level ground. Digging on a sidehill, I felt like a rubber duck in a bathtub bobbing around. Digging a large hole, the spoils need a big footprint. The pile was too big to place one side of the hole. I had to move several times to move the pile away, it wanted to fall into the hole.

Next day I had a premonition, brought the backhoe even though the customer said it wasn't needed. Gas company truck delivered the tank. They had a crain on their truck. They couldn't handle the steep lawn. Without effort, the backhoe toted the tank up to the hole. The mini Excavator would fall flat on its face reaching past the center of the hole with the propane tank. Backhoe didn't mind at all.

Tank had to be backfilled with sand, ditches needed 6" of sand in bottom, 6" on top of pipe. Moving sand would have been a VERY slow process with a mini excavator. Backhoe with 1.3 cubic yard loader bucket, no big deal. I have 2' digging bucket & a 3' toothless clean up bucket. Loading sand surrounding an empty propane tank was efficient. Bedding gas pipe & conduit also.

The mini was sweet at cleaning spoils off the lawn. that one has a 4 way blade. With care one can scrape spoils leaving the grass perfect!

We spent time picking the stone off the top. That was hand work. all hands on deck. I, Seth, customer's wife, & even he with a broken vertibrae picked stone. We tossed them into backhoes loader & backhoe bucket, excavator bucket & his compact utility tractor bucket, dumping each into the backhoe's loader bucket to be hauled away.

Each toolbox may have the needed tools to do a job. Mini excavator can do it, Mini & compact track loader is a good choice, big excavator is also a good choice. I happen to own a backhoe, & find it infinately versatile. Most jobs I can drive to, saving time trailering.

 

[oarwhat]

I'm looking at this photo and I see a really simple and small grading job to get the water to run to the driveway. Not onto the driveway drain, but to run the water past it.
To minimize yard damage, install a 6 inch pipe with a catch basin and grate on the outfall end of it.
Can you post a photo of the swale from the driveway to the ravine or whatever it is ?
It doesn't make any sense to me to dig a trench straight away from the basement door through the elevation the the pool shed is on.

This makes so much sense and is obvious to me. Looks like a swale already that just needs minimal work. Are we missing something? why dig though a hill?

 

[HarleyHappy]

It’s why I haven’t responded in a while. This is one of the easiest jobs in the world, just cut down on sq ft of lawn directly draining into garage door area on downpour. Look at line from corner of driveway to base of gate above door.
Cut a swale, fabric, some stone and loam and seed, call it a day.
Maybe while doing swale, revisit catch basin drain. It’s all about the run off.
He may have to pull a little of the burden down to create swale and I would run it straight down to corner.

 

[Tinkerer]

I would take a different approach.
First, remove the catch basin in front of the basement door. It looks Way tooo close to the same elevation as the door opening. There should have been a slotted drain pipe that is designed for that situation instead of the catch basin with the grate.
6 inch minimum diameter.
It wouldn't surprise me it the entire apron around it isn't pitched to it.

I would not tear up the yard.
A good operator on a trenching machine could and would lay a new pipe all the way to the ravine.

Here is an image of the slotted pipe that I would put in the entire width of the 2 basement doors, or even further it the length of the toe of slope is wider than the doors.

 

[Delmer]

Remember, it's hard to judge grade from photos. He said it's 6'6" at the deepest and 180' to the outlet, I'll take that at face value. Better than 20' for sure, but still might be more than he wants to mess with? either trench or daylight drain.

So there's three options I see.
1. trench to daylight and refill. to the driveway or past.
2. regrade to drain away from the house, to the driveway or past.
3. build a swale, dam, berm to reduce surface area of lawn draining into the basement.
I'm assuming it's way too deep to do anything the direction of the pool.

 

[Project-man]

Thanks again for the input..... pictures are not the best representation for the amount of elevation difference in this side yard, retaining wall, driveway drain and garage/basement catch basin.

The elevation at the pool gatepost is the highest point in these pictures. The retaining wall material is graded away from the house until you get to the last few blocks that were omitted and that's one of the places where the runoff pours down around the wall and onto the catch basin apron. The driveway drain is @ 2 1/2' lower in elevation from the visible corner of the home at the start of the retaining wall. The driveway drain runs straight to the hillside with a 6" solid pipe. There is no way to connect to the driveway drain pipe from the catch basin because the catch basin drain is considerably lower than the driveway drain.

So either trench out to the hillside deeper that the driveway drain, increase catch basin capacity and run a solid 6" line to the hill side popping out @ 5-6' lower than the driveway drain and keeping the accessibility to the garage/basement area in tact or build a berm / pool pathway to isolate the garage/basement area from excessive runoff and regrade the area of the side yard (@ 50% of it) so the excessive runoff migrates the hillside. Sadly this option would reduce the accessibility to the garage/basement area to a minimum and that would be unfortunate.

I'm reluctantly traveling with some family members down south for a few weeks. We will be renting out our home to 3 different parties while we are gone. So far with all of our rentals we only had one flood in our absence and the party never knew the basement flooded because we keep it locked. I'm sure by now the poor members here that have been responding are probably cringing every time I post but please remember I appreciate everyone's feedback and this spring / summer I will have something done about this ridiculous drainage situation because I'm tired of having it hang over my head.....

 

[Delmer]

Just so we're clear, referring to Tinkerer's post #165, the grade at the closest corner of the house is 2.5' higher than the surface of the round manhole cover next to the driveway?

How deep is the basin under that round manhole cover? that could be close to the correct elevation if it's a couple feet deep. Also, is that a solid cover, or a grate? and are you sure there's only one pipe going away from that basin? would sure make more sense to have that be an access point for the basement drain.

If you don't want to dig out an above ground drain to that basement, and want to preserve access, then you need the swale that we've been trying to talk you out of.

 

[Project-man]

Thanks Delmer for the information....yes, the closest corner of the house is @ 2 1/2 higher than the driveway drain. Basically the drain has a round cover with holes in it. I did not take into account the depth of the catch basin for the driveway drain but I imagine it goes down @ 2' from what I remember. That drain line originally had a perforated black flexible pipe that after 40-50 years drained slowly and I was pretty sure it was clogged and collapsed and hoped that replacing this driveway drain would solve my flooding problem. It has a 6' solid pipe that goes directly to the hillside. When it rains hard it moves a lot of water.

It's too bad the garage/basement drain is lower in elevation to the driveway drain or there could have been a drain line intersection at some point. To straight shoot a drain line from the basement/garage area would require a trench deeper than the driveway drain and pulling the trigger to complete this project is making me apprehensive.

I'm going away for a few weeks and keeping my fingers crossed we don't get any 3-4 hour downpours that will overwhelm the basement drain.....But I will say, ever since I installed the high rate sump pump in the basement catch basin, it has not turned on once so far so that's a little reassuring.....

 

[Tinkerer]

There is perforated drain tile with a fiberglass sock around it to prevent fine material from plugging the pipe.
I have installed many miles of it on interstate highways.
I ran a Vermeer trencher with a laser mounted on it. Any a mount of slope the project required could be set in it.
I noticed you said a lot of water originates at the top of slope by the pool area.
Is it feasible to install slotted drain pipe there and drain it in the direction of that drop-off I saw behind the pool shed ?