Caterpillar on road trucks and engines

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Guday folks.

I'm back home in Australia after a couple of weeks touring north island of New Zealand . . . and I saw perhaps a half a dozen Caterpillar road trucks which was a very rare sight for me.

My New Zealand friend tells me they are the latest thing with Caterpillar engines and all Mother Cat's bells and whistles.

So what's the go? I thought Cat were going out of the road truck and engine business and the so called "Caterpillar trucks" were basically badge engineering at it's worst . . . the one local truck with a Cat badge I believe was a Navistar with a Cummins, I am completely confused.

I have tried to do a bit of research but, to say the least, the information is contradictory.

Can anyone clarify the situation which seems to be a public relations and marketing disaster?

Cheers

 

[Junkyard]

You're right. Navistar iron with Cat badges. Turds. Local dealers all but gave them away. Engine issues etc etc. Total failure IMO. A local contractor has some and they are snake bit bad. He called asking if I knew of a place that could delete all the crap off the motors. For every hour or mile of service it seems as though they spend twice that in the shop.

Junkyard

 

[CM1995]

Cat has shelved production of the trucks. http://www.caterpillar.com/en/news/...oduction-of-on-highway-vocational-trucks.html

However the trucks are still marketed on their website. They might be getting rid of stock?

I asked my salesman about them when they first came out and he just shook his head no.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Gotcha Junkyard.

I hope other folks with a bit of inside knowledge will help clarify the situation as regards the Caterpillar saga into vocational trucks.

With the current US administration perhaps about to wind back some environmental legislation perhaps Cat will be prepared to get back into/continue in that segment?

It would be hard to imagine them producing anything but engines. Road trannies, drive lines, cabs and chassis are hardly a Caterpillar thing.

I always thought them getting into bed with International seemed a bit out of left field . . .now snuggling up to Kenworth or Mack would be a different thing again. (wry grin)

Cheers.

 

[mowingman]

Well, Cat had a plant under construction, or already finished, in south Texas that was going to be their truck plant. Before they bailed, they had on-road engines in development stage, had ended their deal with Navistar, and had announced that Cat would build their own trucks in the future. I don't know where all this stands now, but Cat trucks have not been manufactured for at least the last 2 model years.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Thanks mowingman.

It's got me beat. I just copied this link from the Australian agents website . . .

http://www.hastingsdeering.com.au/home/images/ApprovedImages/Products/Oh Highway Trucks/ct630hd_specsheet.pdf

It sure looks like they are maintaining a blatant "business as usual" attitude if in fact (as detailed in C M's link) they are shutting down the operation.

Anyone care to comment?

Cheers.

 

[Tones]

Scrub, NZ gets alot of tail end of production run's. An outfit I worked for over there purchased some Macks that were going to be shipped to Argentina but they had run out of overseas funds so Mack sent them to NZ. That was right after the Falklands war. A real bosses truck, cheap and never broke down, no comfort for the driver, an air seat was an extra. Foden ,Oskosh were others that come to mind

PS Cyclone Debbie couldn't get you in OZ so she went looking for you in NZ.

 

[92U 3406]

I think they're just a slightly better looking Prostar. We've got 1 in the fleet. Has a few issues. Navistar dealer can't plug into it and we can't seem to access it with ET. They never were a popular truck. I can count 4 I see on a regular basis locally including ours.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Gotcha Tones.

I mentioned that possibility to my friend. He had been told by a quarry operator in Wellington the trucks were the latest current technology, in production and the Cat engines would only be available in Cat trucks.

I didn't argue as I had no access to the net over there and thought Cat may have changed their mind . . . again.

If, as suggested in CM's link, the idea has been shelved the whole exercise of selling off existing stock is a cynical exercise in off-loading a discontinued line with no sweeteners (as far as I can see).

The whole claim and counter claim thing is a marketing schemozzle.

Cheers.

 

[Junkyard]

Meanwhile they close a plant in IL and shuffle people around, several hundred lose their jobs. Also may have a multi-billion dollar tax bill payable to Uncle Sam due to some creative offshore accounting. Gotta love it! Maybe Bernie Madoff helped them cook the books!!

Junkyard

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

PS Cyclone Debbie couldn't get you in OZ so she went looking for you in NZ.

Yeh, she was a ball tearer hey.

Our house sitters reckoned it started showering the day we left, built up to the cyclone with some wind and seventeen inchers of rain and cleared the day we flew back into Brissy\ . . . then it clobbered the North Island where we'd been poking about.

All the best to D6 Merv and our other Kiwi members, trust all is well with you and yours.

Cheers.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

After looking around a few more sites I am just as confused as ever.

I have seen articles stating the "C13" is a yellow MAN engine with Cat Decals and stickers and the "C15" is a Cat block and bottom end with Navistar pistons, top end, injection and engine management . . . what could go wrong with that? (sad shrug)

Right or wrong these articles are out there and must be damaging to Cat.

The vocational truck line seems to have been a very poorly managed foray into a competitive market and until they get repeat orders from the likes of Fox, Toll, and a few of the ready mix outfits I think Cat must view it as a "Fail".

I have no skin in this of course and started the thread out of curiosity and interest.

Thanks to all who contributed and any further views or opinions will be appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[92U 3406]

I honestly don't know what to believe when it comes to that kind of stuff. There's so much BS floating around in regards to who makes what these days.

 

[wornout wrench]

A friend of mine who works for Finning (One of the world's largest Cat dealers) sent me a copy of the notice that said that Cat was discontinuing production of their highway trucks. That was last year I believe.

They were never popular here. I have never seen one in real life.

A fellow that I work with used to work for a truck shop down island from me. There was a local guy who had bought one.
It was a turd. Spent more time on the back of the hook getting towed to Vancouver to be repaired.
(For those of you not local. To get to Vancouver from Vancouver Island there is a ferry involved. Not sure how much it would be for a large wrecker with a Class 8 dump truck behind it, guessing 5 to 6 hundred on top of the tow and then the cost of the return. Pretty much going to tie the wrecker up for a day)

As for Cat engines.

The company I work for have some Cat equipment.

The 568 forestry machines are powered by C9's
Your lucky if you see 9 with them. See 9000 hours, start looking for a rebuild because as soon as they hit 10 or 11K they will blow.
Garbage.
Just had another one come back with a bad oil sample.

I'm looking for a Motorhome for retirement.
I found a beautiful unit close to home.
Went and had a look.
Just gorgeous.
Opened the engine hatch and there was a big yellow C12 rusting away.

Slammed the hatch closed.
Thanked the Salesman for his time and RAN for my car.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Ruger_556]

They are a redesigned International 9400i with a Maxxforce, the story I was told by a corporate IH trainer was that there were some customers in Australia that would only buy a truck with a CAT engine. Navistar's response was to paint their engine yellow and the "CAT" truck was born. I can't say for certain whether that story is true but that is was I was told.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Dunno. A mate just sent me this . . . http://www.cattrucks.com.au/

The engines look to be Cat which puts paid to the claim they are out of the road engine business.

Beats me how they can justify building trucks in Australia though . . . especially when I have never seen one on the highway.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Cheers.

 

[lantraxco]

I can't find mention of that CT630 anywhere BUT Australia, so maybe it's an Ozzie orphan child? CAT has been pretty psychotic the last few years, like buying up all sorts of lines in mining and then literally killing them off when they decided to get out of it. Not confidence inspiring. But then look at the incredible mess left by Ford/New Holland/Case/Hitachi/Kobelco/Macmoter, et al>FIAT Group? Talk about and exploding cluster hump.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Not confidence inspiring.

I believe you summed it up in three words lantraxco.

Judging by the rolled eyes and head shakes I got down at the truck stop when I mentioned Cat trucks it will be a while before they are accepted up here in Queensland.

Having said that if Goughs can get some on the road in NZ and they perform okay and the price and dealer service is competitive they may make it . . . I hope so.

I did notice in the Cat blurb there was a picture of one in Toll livery hauling a car carrier so perhaps they are cutting some deals.

It may also be that I am talking through my hat and they may be common down south . . . it's just that we live on the main drag North through Queensland and I have never seen one on line-haul.

As I said up thread I have no skin in this but it saddens me to see Caterpillar, a company I held dear and could do no wrong for so many years of my working life in a position where folks actively dislike and shun some of the products of the Marque.

Cheers.

 

[Queenslander]

To confuse matters further, Iveco will soon be marketing the Prostar here under the International brand name, all with Cummins motors... will be interesting to see if they do any better than the Cat version.

 

[Karl Robbers]

Let me declare my Cat experience upfront. My grandfather was a sawmiller and logger, but could never afford the premium for Cat gear, however he praised them and their service to the day he died, I did my apprenticeship under an ex Cat salesman and went on to buy my own Cat dozer (D7C), later on I worked underground and operated Cat AD30, AD40, AD45B, AD55, AD55B trucks and R2900 boggers. In addition, a heavy vehicle mechanic friend of mine who also spent time in truck sales has added his perceptions to the mix.
The Caterpillar that my Grandfather, first boss and who built my lovely D7C is long dead, replaced by a company that seems intent on dabbling in everything. Not all of it well. The AD30-AD55B trucks are good pieces of gear, but parts backup seemed lacking with longish lead times to source basic parts. The C18 engine in the AD55 is pushed way too hard to achieve the output rating and they fit into one of two categories. Those that make 10,000 hours and those that don't make 100. Failures generally mean daylight visible from one side of the block to the other and vital parts spread over a fair radius. The R2900 boggers are workmanlike, but basic and ergonomics are terrible. They also heat up their environment far more than the comparable Sandvik boggers, (anyone who has worked underground will appreciate that this is a problem). Same comments relating to parts backup. One mine I worked at was chosen to trial the brand new R3000 bogger prototype, intended to take on the Sandvik 621's and exceed their performance. It was a total dog, short on engine power and with exceptionally weak hydraulics. The Sandvik could just drive into a pile and grab a full bucket, while the Cat would bounce and dance around all over the place trying to fill their buckets.
The Cat road going trucks were a joke from day one with their EURO emission standards lagging well behind other competitive brands, (while I prefer uncomplicated engines, resale value will be negatively impacted greatly) and dated cab design further hurting sales. Cat in Geelong has a whole yard full of unsold trucks that were produced to meet the expected flood of buyers fawning over the new trucks due to the Cat name. If William Adams (the Tasmanian Cat dealer) managed to sell more than three I would be surprised.
If you ask most truck drivers here to name their dream truck, Kenworth would be the dominant choice. The very average truck that Cat dished up was never going to be a serious threat to the established marques and opposing truck salesmen certainly didn't seem to rate them as a serious threat. The whole debacle did speak volumes as to Cat's current attitudes and arrogance. We are the best because we say we are and you should buy our product because it has a Cat badge. If our product is outclassed, see previous statement.
I long for the return of the old Caterpillar who built solid gear and backed it better than anyone else in the game.