Cat track loader purchase

[ippielb]

Just finished a job two days ago building a gravel pad for some grain bins. Used my 973c and champion grader to do it. Cleared a row of trees that would've been in the way of the bin pad, took my grader with the ripper and ripped the roots so they hopefully wont come back. I had a bunch of gravel stockpiled just to the east probably 30-40 feet away from the beginning of the pad. The pad was about 200 feet long, and 25 feet wide. With a small drainage ditch between the existing row of bins and the new pad so they can install a drainage tile next year. I stripped the top soil and organic off the surface stockpiled it at the end with my track loader. Then i went bucket by bucket hauling the gravel onto the pad. And let me say that if anyone remembers the modulation issue i was running into before with lack of fine control lowering the arms down. Well with a heaping bucket of gravel. Modulation was absolutely terrible.

With a full bucket of gravel up at eye level in the cab. I could push the joystick forward 1/4" and it would start to slowly go down, but as soon as the bucket pins get lower then the top loader arm pins by the cab. It drops the bucket as if I'm mashing the joystick into the detent. Maximum speed for dropping.

I'm starting to wonder if the pressure from the loader arm cylinders is being fed into the pilot system and compounding with my pilot pump pressure and opening the valve far more then i am commanding? Is there a port/regulator/valve that controls the flow that could be faulty?

 

[ippielb]

 

[ippielb]

Today i got my old batteries out of the machine. They've been in there since i bought it back in 2015. They let me down the other day so they had to get replaced. Under the batteries there was quite a bit of rust on the tray. So i hit it with the air hammer, needle scaler, and wire wheel and painted with rust paint really heavy to try and act like a barrier.

Then i got started on trying to figure out a mounting system for the diesel heater i bought. I got one of those cheap chinese ones. It's only an air heater though. I wanted to go this route because i want to be able to blow the hot air on the pumps and everything under the cab. It's enclosed quite well in there so i feel the air might be able to take the chill off. Even if it keeps it just above freezing i'd be happy with that.

I also knew i had my old EGR cooler i removed off my duramax. I could utilize the still hot exhaust gases to go through the EGR cooler to heat the coolant. There's not much open real estate on this machine. Everything is packed in there quite snug. But i did find a place where i could fit in both the diesel heater, and the EGR cooler in a vertical position. I opted to go vertical mounting so that hopefully the heating will cause the coolant to circulate enough. But i'm concerned with the height the EGR is mounted that it's too high up to be functional.

I need to figure out how i'm going to mount the diesel air heater itself. Looking at the body panel mounting bolt i'm probably going to try and utilize that. and maybe the cabin air filter door bolts. Can't remember if there's anything else i can use.

I also need to find a coolant hose that's low to take and put it to the bottom of the EGR cooler. and somewhere i can put the coolant back into the engine. I think there's a plug on the bottom of the aftercooler that would be perfect to put a threaded barb into. That way it would also heat the air in the intake making an easier start. I'll have to do some more digging.

And for the fuel line, i'm not 100% sure where i'm going to be able to grab fuel from. I was hoping there was going to be an obvious spot where would be best. But i do not want to grab fuel from before the injection pump. I don't want to compromise reliability of the feed line. I was hoping that the fuel return i could tap into somewhere that way it's not critical for engine function. If something happens i can easily just plug it and go about my business. Not be stuck with a no start or engine issues.

 

[Georgia Iron]

Today i got my old batteries out of the machine. They've been in there since i bought it back in 2015. They let me down the other day so they had to get replaced. Under the batteries there was quite a bit of rust on the tray. So i hit it with the air hammer, needle scaler, and wire wheel and painted with rust paint really heavy to try and act like a barrier.

Then i got started on trying to figure out a mounting system for the diesel heater i bought. I got one of those cheap chinese ones. It's only an air heater though. I wanted to go this route because i want to be able to blow the hot air on the pumps and everything under the cab. It's enclosed quite well in there so i feel the air might be able to take the chill off. Even if it keeps it just above freezing i'd be happy with that.

I also knew i had my old EGR cooler i removed off my duramax. I could utilize the still hot exhaust gases to go through the EGR cooler to heat the coolant. There's not much open real estate on this machine. Everything is packed in there quite snug. But i did find a place where i could fit in both the diesel heater, and the EGR cooler in a vertical position. I opted to go vertical mounting so that hopefully the heating will cause the coolant to circulate enough. But i'm concerned with the height the EGR is mounted that it's too high up to be functional.

I need to figure out how i'm going to mount the diesel air heater itself. Looking at the body panel mounting bolt i'm probably going to try and utilize that. and maybe the cabin air filter door bolts. Can't remember if there's anything else i can use. View attachment 297957

I also need to find a coolant hose that's low to take and put it to the bottom of the EGR cooler. and somewhere i can put the coolant back into the engine. I think there's a plug on the bottom of the aftercooler that would be perfect to put a threaded barb into. That way it would also heat the air in the intake making an easier start. I'll have to do some more digging.

And for the fuel line, i'm not 100% sure where i'm going to be able to grab fuel from. I was hoping there was going to be an obvious spot where would be best. But i do not want to grab fuel from before the injection pump. I don't want to compromise reliability of the feed line. I was hoping that the fuel return i could tap into somewhere that way it's not critical for engine function. If something happens i can easily just plug it and go about my business. Not be stuck with a no start or engine issues.

I am sure you know, but i melted a few parts using one of those. Getting the air to spread out and stay warm is a trick I have yet to master.

 

[ippielb]

I am sure you know, but i melted a few parts using one of those. Getting the air to spread out and stay warm is a trick I have yet to master.

I never read this post before. I want to see your experience now. The air heater i bought i picked out one with 4 smaller output nozzles instead of the one larger one. That way i could route one hose to each pump area, one at the hydrostatic tank, and then the other i dont know, just under there somewhere haha. I was banking on the coolant heating to be enough with the EGR cooler to run it into the aftercooler and heat the intake air and then maybe enough to keep the block from being freezing.

Since the hydraulic pumps turn all the time when the engine is going, if a person could keep those warm, and the engine oil. Then have warm air in the intake. Starting it would be a non issue in any temperatures. Working out in the bush i have zero way to plug it in for an electric coolant heater.

Not sure how cold it gets in Georgia, but in the winters here the coldest temperature i run my equipment in is -25c(-13f). Any colder then that is asking for breakdowns, and breakdowns one wouldn't want to fix when its that cold. So easier to just wait for warmer temps to work.

 

[Welder Dave]

You certainly don't want to be having to fix stuff when it's -25C.

 

[ippielb]

You certainly don't want to be having to fix stuff when it's -25C.

Did that once... Literally just once though. Main hydraulic hose from the hydraulic pump to the valve body blew. Kicked my feet up off the floor of the machine. Lucky for me i had the bucket tilted down and off the ground so i could get the panels off to change it.

I didn't like how high that EGR cooler was mounted So I cut the mount off and extended the mounting bracket down 9.5" with some C channel. So now the top of the cooler is a couple inches above where the bottom use to be. Should give the coolant more lift to pull i hope.

I also mounted the diesel heater itself. If you see the bracket my extension cord is wrapped around for my oil pan heater. I made a 5" drop bracket and welded on 10" of the same C channel and cut out the shape from the template in the kit so i could mount the air heater right there above the cooler. I was trying to make another support for the top of the EGR cooler but it got dark out and i cross threaded a bolt into the frame that i had to chase so i called it quits.

I do have a question for anyone if they know. The fuel return line coming off of the front of the injection pump. Would that be a suitable place to get my fuel feed line for my heater? Or will it start sucking air once the fuel line is emptied? It has a hose clamp on the one end so i could easily just T into the line right there which is only a foot or two away from the diesel air heater.

And the plug on the side of the aftercooler is a lot smaller then i'd hoped... Hard to find two ports that are big enough to flow enough coolant and that would be on opposite sides of the block and at the proper height.

 

[ippielb]

My cat dealer is no help unless you are paying them. Called and asked what ports they use when installing a coolant heater. And if the fuel return line would be an acceptable place to take fuel for the heater. And got the answer, "we don't usually tell people, we usually just send someone out to install it for you"

Well, i'm not really interested in paying someone to finish the job when i'm 90% done it already. All i need to know is the best two ports to use. So i can get the fittings and appropriate amount of 5/8" heater hose to install.

 

[Welder Dave]

That's a really crappy way to treat a customer. All your asking is where to hook up a heater. It might be worth calling a different Cat dealer. Maybe say the heater was disconnected because it needed to be fixed but you'd like to hook it up again and just need to know what lines can be used.

 

[Tags]

It’s such short sighted thinking for a dealer to act like that. I have zero patience for a dealer like that.

From my experience, as a small customer of Cat long ago, they couldn’t care less about helping me, so that was the first and last Cat I’d ever own.

 

[Georgia Iron]

They probably just don't know. I called a part guy at cat today he seemed so green. You just need to keep asking until you get someone more experienced.

 

[Welder Dave]

Sometimes if you go and talk to someone in person they are much more helpful. I can't remember what it was for but I went to Finning and someone in service took me in the back and let me look through the proper manual to find what I was looking for. I think it might have been for something on the backhoe. No one there had ever seen a D3/931B backhoe before so at least they helped me about the best they could.

 

[IceHole]

You boys live N of the 49th, Tandems here still rule, Heavy Hauler required to move a 977 or a 973, 963 is still touchy/heavy but see them on tandems pretty often with Permitting. Tri Axle trailers and Drop axle tractors ONLY for 973s.

We move a 45 ton feller buncher on 6 axles.

 

[ippielb]

I'm on the same page as Georgia right now. It's getting to be that time where all the people who use to work on these older engines are retiring. Every service advisor i've talked to at finning sounds young. They probably can't even picture what a 3306 is. They couldn't even tell me if the fuel return line goes down into the tank and returns the fuel by the fuel pickup or not.

If the cat dealership was only a couple minutes away for sure i'd just go and ask and show them pictures. But I did get help from someone else on another forum he had found a picture of a 3306 with an electric circulatory heater on it and gave me an idea of what two plugs i could use would be.

But as you can see, having access to the plugs is not very fun. First picture is the limited access the battery is at cylinder head level. The second picture is the highest port that i could find. But wiggling any kind of fitting in there and attaching a hose without draining the coolant(i dont want to) would not be fun.I could unbolt the bracket holding the rubber hose in front out of the way, but that hardline right behind it is the issue. The lower line that would be the suction is down between the ROPS support and the block. And on the other side the hydrostatic tank is in the way. I can barely see the port from between the tank and the ROPS support.

I'm getting to the point where for this year i might just tie into the heater core since the lines are right there and i could at least have a warm cab. Any any extra heat that makes it through can go into the block.

 

[Georgia Iron]

It so hard to wrap my mind around snow. Please let it snow here. It hit 85 and the mosquitoes tried to carry me out of the deer stand

 

[ippielb]

It so hard to wrap my mind around snow. Please let it snow here. It hit 85 and the mosquitoes tried to carry me out of the deer stand

Haha you'd like it for a day, but after that you'd be sick of the cold unless you got a winter hobby. We go through some extremes here. 40c in the summer to -40c in the winter. The cold lasts longer then the warm though. Oh thats 100f to -40f for you. Usually one week of the real hot, and 3-4 weeks of the real cold.

 

[DB2]

Just armchair quarterbacking here but why are you against draining the coolant ?

 

[ippielb]

Just armchair quarterbacking here but why are you against draining the coolant ?

Normally nothing, but currently the conditions i'd have to do it in. I dont have a shop big enough to do it in. And outside the grounds frozen and now thawed, then got 1/2" of rain on it, now 6-8" of snow. So getting under the machine to drain the 11 gallons of coolant is not ideal. I was going to do the whole thing where you cut the bottom of a 5 gallon pail out to fit the tank and then stick a vacuum on the pail to try and pull the maneuvers off.

 

[Mobiltech]

I have installed a few of the diesel burning espar coolant heaters on 3306 engines and I either tap into the primary fuel filter or go right to the tank for fuel supply. As far as coolant hookup goes the 3306 is one of the hardest engines to get good ports for flow on. With the espar it has enough pump flow of coolant that you can tap into the heater hoses and it will heat the engine.
I would recommend you look into the espar or webasto coolant heater for your machine and then use that egr cooler with hot coolant pumped through it from the espar to create hot air to blow on the trans/ hydraulic area.
Another suggestion is if you are starting that hydrostat at -25 you should probably be putting arctic hydraulic oil in it.

 

[Nige]

Another suggestion is if you are starting that hydrostat at -25 you should probably be putting arctic hydraulic oil in it.

A multigrade TO-4 would probably be as good as any if you don't want the faff of changing oils between summer and winter.
One option would be Cat TDTO-TMS or a commercial equivalent such as Chevron Delo TorqForce MP which is SAE 10W/40.
Another (and probably better option) would be Cat TDTO Cold Weather or Chevron Del TorqForce Synthetic which is SAE 0W/20.