cat series differences?

[junior]

what are the differences between for example 963-963B-963LGP-963C-.......

and another question, if i buy a 973C instead of 973 is it worth of this choice, i saw a 963C in youtube(now it is removed) that was incredible like a squirrel, so nimble that i couldn't believe. is it the difference between C and others, the cycle period? maybe it is fast with the help of electronic controls and joysticks. i see 963 and 973 that are not fast like C series, like old 955L, 977K and other series.

and another question. what are the difference between old frond mounted engined crawler loaders and new series rear mounted ones. i think the old ones are more stable because of wider chassis. for example a 955L seems safer than a 963. maybe the rear engine is better for a counter weight but in this photo you can see that it is not the exact way to prevent the unbalance of machine because with the full load it can be unbalanced again, like this picture(look at the undercarriage's rear part, it is up) http://forum.bauforum24.biz/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=100494. When i see a 955L with a full load it seems same with this, so if we don't care about visibility, why rear mounted, their length is also more than old(for me better in the same time) front engined models.

 

[junior]

for ex. in this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=AR3jIj36Gao 963 is so awkward, moving like a tortoise, but a few weeks ago the video i see about 963C was so amazing, it was so quick and skilful. so can be the difference is about the torqflow and the hydrostatic drive? i mean if we look at the old crawler loaders they are torqflow and moving seems like 963, but 963C and 973C and the other hydrostatic drive units are different. isn't the 963 and 973 are hydrostatic. if they are, why are they so awkward, where is the advantage of hydrostatic then.

and i have last question. i heart that hydrostatic machines are delicate, and can be easily failure, is it true? And can we force hydrostatic machines as we can do on torqflows, is it possible, or must not we force them as torqflow ones? (we know that old torqflow machines like 977K, 955L are so strong and powerfull that you can force them to very hard jobs and they don't bother.)

 

[junior]

look at the photos, do you understand when i say that the rear engine is not enough for counterweight. It means these pictures below. You can NEVER see this kind of things in old crawler loaders like 977, 955, 983,... Is it because these C series are so speedy and quick, rash?) and isn't this harmful for undercarriage?

http://www.baumaschinenbilder.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101981
http://www.baumaschinenbilder.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101982

 

[Deas Plant]

What's Inna Name???????

Hi, Junior.
The 953, 963, 973, etc., denotes the model. The following letter, A, B, C, D, etc., denotes the particular series of that model.

The photos of the machine doing the 'muslim prayer' act are, to me at least, an indicator of a LARGE dose of operator stupidity. The only way I can see that that pose would be achieved would be have a FULL bucket, travel forward flat out and throw the machine into reverse.

You would be less likely to be able to do this with the older powershift machines like the 955, 977, etc., because they shifted somewhat more gently than the hydrostatic drives can be shifted. That is not to say that you could not do it with the older machines, just that you might have to work at it a bit harder.

Having said the above, I also have to point out that doing it, or even attempting it, is stupid in the extreme 'cos it does NOT do the machine, whatever its vintage, any good at all. If an operator is stupid enough to try it, I reckon he deserves whatver he gets by way of injury, if any. I'd be more concerned about any injuries to the machine.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Dozerboy]

Not that I have spent much time on 953 ETC but IMO there much more balanced with a load in the bucket. Back up on soft ground or up hill and you well be doing the muslim prayer with or without a load on a 977 ETC.

 

[Deas Plant]

Not UN-balanced

Hi, Dozerboy.
Yer right. The rear-engined Cat track loaders are quite well balanced. Funny thing is, because of the force with which those hydrostatic transmisions can be slammed through from one direction to the other, they are somewhat more likely to do this little trick.

 

[biggixxerjim]

Id hate to be around when that bucket let go......

And yes, that seems like a hell of a strain on the idlers

 

[unimog]

I came close to that position about 4 times yesterday backing up out of a basement excavation. I'm not good about wearing seat belts, however in a track loader they are MANDATORY. Buckle up tight in these things!

As far as the series differences I've seen between a 953B and C it's mostly electronics. The B series has a mechanical injection engine with a manual throttle. The C has a switch that gives you idle or full throttle and another that selects fast or slow travel speeds. It also felt like the pedals on a B were working a mechanical linkage while a C seemed to be electric over hydraulic. The lift and tilt levers on a B are quite a bit bigger than a C so it's a little easier to control both at once on a c for digging operations.

 

[Deas Plant]

B vs C

Hi, Unimog.
I've only run 2 x 953's, a 'B' and a 'C'. The 'B' had an old Cat 950 4-in-1 bucket on it, modified to fit but still a good 10% bigger than the 4-in-1 bucket on the 'C'. Both had Cat rear-mounted rippers. The 'B' handled its bigger bucket in fine style and would run rings around the 'C' in any going.

Yes, the controls were a little easier to operate on the 'C', being electronic but I spent over 2 years on the 'B' and never once wished I had the 'C'. I could almost clean your fingernails with a tooth on the bucket of that 'B'. The 'C' never, ever had that kind of feel.

There was almost zero difference in fuel consumption but the 'B' would outwork the 'C' in any going, despite it being a 4-banger against a 6-banger. Just no contest.

Another BIG plus was that we could do a LOT of our own repairs on the 'B'. About all we could do on the 'C' was services and hose repairs, because of those damned electronics. On the 'B', you could tilt the cab to get at things under it. The 'C' cab didn't tilt.

As I said, I've only operated those 2 x 953's but if they are any indication, I'd reckon Cat went backwards with that 'update'(?)

 

[Deas Plant]

More differences - well one more really

Hi, Unimog.
There was one more VERY user-friendly difference between the 953B and the 'C' that I operated. The 'B' had the hoist and crowd controls on the one joystick. I LOVED that.

 

[unimog]

Yeah with the 4 in 1 bucket you have a single lever control with another to run the auxillary hyd. on the bucket. I thought the single lever would be easier to run but I'm getting used to the twin levers.

You are right about the B being a bit better than a C. We had a B and C both and the B was faster and we think it's stronger too. Our B has a 3116 engine which is a 6 cylinder I guess some are 4 cylinder? I can't say I'm a fan of the HEUI system. Not only is it harder to field service, it shears the heck out of the oil.

I'd really like to try a D out and see how it is. The specs show it has a good amount of HP so we'll see.

 

[junior]

so, what do you say about differences in joystick and non joystick controlled loaders?

 

[Deas Plant]

Joystick vs twin-lever.

Hi, Junior.
As I mentioned above, I loved that joystick control. I can handle twin levers or, in the case of 4-in-1 equipped machines, 3 levers but, given similar machines, I'd take a joystick anytime.

 

[junior]

hi deas,
on the other hand what i said before, although rear engined loaders are seem not balanced front engined loeders doesn't make it, like the third and fourth picture below(opposite of the first and second) see how balanced while handle the bulldozer.

 

[Deas Plant]

Re Balance vs idiocy.

Hi, Junior.
May I suggest that you go back and re-read my first post on this thread about the way that situation could have ooccurred.

The rear-engined Cat loaders ARE better balanced than their front-engined predecessors. I have already explained how that situation could have occurred and I don't intend to repeat myself. However, I would suggest that the photos of the Cat 951 lifting the front of the Case 'dozer might look a little different if that 951 started to back up while the parking brake was locked on the dozer.

 

[junior]

excuse for my bad english i did not write it for you, sorry. because of my english.

 

[Deas Plant]

No Apology Necessary

Hi, Junior.
You do not need to apologise for your English as it is not your native tongue. I have absolutely no doubt that you speak English far better than I speak Turkish - I don't have any knowledge of Turkish at all.

All I was suggesting was that you go back and re-read my earlier post about how that rear-engined loader might have got into that situation. I might add that doing that with a front-engined track loader would be a LOT more dangerous because of the extra distant that the operator would travel and the probable higher speed that he would be travelling up at due to sitting further back from the tip point (the front of the tracks).

And think for a moment what might happen if the operator of that 951 lifting the front of the dozer were to put it in reverse and back up whith the brakes locked on the dozer.

 

[pwbsmokey]

standing a loader on its nose

With the bucket linkage that the rear engine loaders have, you can stand them on their nose easily like in the photos. I have done it myself with a 963 and a 980 rubber tire loader. Also I believe that the bucket on the rear engine machines is further forward from the tracks than a front engine machine, which will tip the machine more when loaded.

 

[Walt 66A]

One thing that I haven't seen discussed is that the C models have a completely different HPCU. The C's are more or less just two pumps, back to back, and electronicaly controled.

 

[waldo]

Cat 953 differences

Anyone know when the basic 953 became the 953B. What can you tell about the machine from the exhaust style, and its mounting behind cab. Wide diameter central behind cab or narrow diameter offset. I am hoping to build a working model 953 and am try to get these differences nailed down so that I get an accurate representation of a particular marque.