Cat m wreck

[WILDCAT]

G'day Guys,

My opinion is that Caterpillar must incorporate a steering wheel into the M series for roading and deploy work for safety reasons. The must also incorporate a hydraulic accumulator in case the engine fails, giving the operator the ability to steer the machine to a safe stopping area. They must also redesign the front frame to give operators better vision out the front of the machine. Also the lift ram linkage should be modified to give better vision of the front wheels. I would hope that they will pick up on these problems or they will loose massive market share to other company's like Volvo & John Deere. I haven't seen the new G series John Deere, but it would be well worth a good close look.

Regards

WILDCAT

 

[AtlasRob]

"Looky what happened to YOUR machine!!!"

Its quite amasing how quickly it can become YOUR machine. I have the same problem when MY daughter or MY son have done something wrong, usually they are OUR kids

 

[Tracksoup71]

Howdy Wildcat.

The 16M we recently aquired has some safety features with the steering. For normal operating, for every inch of stick movement you get 10 degrees of wheel turn. If roading the machine above 20 MPH, the steering response is cut in half which makes it a lot easier to control at the higher speeds. It also has a Hydraulic lock out that locks out all empliments except steering to prevent any accidental movement of the empliments while roading. This machine is also equiped with a secondary steering system that runs off of an electric pump that automatically kicks in should you lose power to your hydraulic system or the engine itself. This pump runs off of the batteries alone and will drain the batteries within a few minuets of use, so it is only a means to safely stop the maching out of the way should a failure accure. I do agree with you on the visability though. I miss having the big picture window in front to better see what the front of your machine is doing and the terrain ahead of you. It seems the new cab design is more focused on blade visibility of what you're doing with the blade instead of where you're going with the blade. Maybe they will work on modifications to this in the N, O, or P models in the future.(or how ever the hell their alphabet goes in the equipment world, I can't keep up....LOL)

Tracksoup71

 

[milling_drum]

Us milling folks like joystick/lever controls.

 

[AtlasRob]

Howdy Wildcat.

The 16M we recently aquired has some safety features with the steering. If roading the machine above 20 MPH, the steering response is cut in half which makes it a lot easier to control at the higher speeds. It also has a Hydraulic lock out that locks out all empliments except steering to prevent any accidental movement of the empliments while roading.

Thats some intresting additions that have been made.

Is the Hyd lockout auto or operator activated? I only ask as I know from posts on here that some operators in certain parts of the world seem able to shift snow while travelling a bit faster than that.

Be intresting to hear the specialists comments. I wont say experts as I know Deas definition

 

[Tracksoup71]

The Hydraulic lock out on our 16M is a switch you have to manually turn off. But the steering above 20 MPH going to half response is automatically kicked in by the computer when the machine reaches the appropriate speed.

 

[CarterKraft]

Nice

I agree. I would like to see a documented report myself. Of all places for something to happen though...a darn bridge! From the looks of the back ground I would assume it wasn't a short trip. If it was a failure, why did it have to happen on the bridge. Makes me wonder if it may have been just operator error.

You agree...

your original post says

Not sure what happened but it could be related to joystick steering.

are you serious. If you look at the amount of guardrail damage the deflection in the cabit would seem to me that some speed was involved, regardless of controls.

Try to be impartial, for everyones sake.

 

[I AM IRONMAN]

CarterKraft
A friend of mine that works as a Motor Grader Operator for a local county, has been running a 160M since about last Sept with about 300 hours on it since it was new.
He has over 25 years of experience operating graders and other equipment. Before I ever seen the pictures, his comments to me were that he liked the blading controls, but when he hits a bump in the road, he has to really concentrate on holding the lever still so he don't move it around as his arm moves. Having been around a lot of County Bridges, often there is a small bump as you drive up on the planks. I can easily see how a new operator to that machine, could easily have that happen, and make a small swerve to the left and dropping his front left tire off the edge. That rail would not hold a 40,000 lb grader.

To think that it wouldn't be related to joystick steering would be ridiculous.

One of those operators could be traveling at a good clip, hitting the bump and losing control, and going over the edge.
I'd bet money that when the full story comes out, that will be the cause. IMHO

 

[AtlasRob]

The Hydraulic lock out on our 16M is a switch you have to manually turn off. But the steering above 20 MPH going to half response is automatically kicked in by the computer when the machine reaches the appropriate speed.

That makes sense :thumbsup thanks.

My duck has cruise control ........ :dizzy ....... activated by button, cancelled by touching the brake pedal, that also cancels the levers, but flat out I'm only doing 30kph :slomo

 

[roadrunner]

CarterKraft
A friend of mine that works as a Motor Grader Operator for a local county, has been running a 160M since about last Sept with about 300 hours on it since it was new.
He has over 25 years of experience operating graders and other equipment. Before I ever seen the pictures, his comments to me were that he liked the blading controls, but when he hits a bump in the road, he has to really concentrate on holding the lever still so he don't move it around as his arm moves. Having been around a lot of County Bridges, often there is a small bump as you drive up on the planks. I can easily see how a new operator to that machine, could easily have that happen, and make a small swerve to the left and dropping his front left tire off the edge. That rail would not hold a 40,000 lb grader.

To think that it wouldn't be related to joystick steering would be ridiculous.

One of those operators could be traveling at a good clip, hitting the bump and losing control, and going over the edge.
I'd bet money that when the full story comes out, that will be the cause. IMHO

Yep, I agree with you IRONMAN!


roadrunner.

 

[66ken]

I would like to know how many operators have went into a ditch with a steering wheel machine? I may know a little bit about this accident, but will wait for the final verdict. By the way this county ordered another 140M.

 

[I AM IRONMAN]

66KEN
You definitely have an advantage on us if you know more about this!
Please tell what you can about it, so we can make some objective opinions.
Thanks- IRONMAN

 

[roadrunner]

66ken, if you know something about this accident what are you waiting for?You are making it seem as if it wasn't the graders fault.And who has not been in the ditch before?
So spit it out!

The county ordered a new 140m probably because this one is written off!ointhead

 

[66ken]

The county ordered a new 140m probably because this one is written off!


I am not sure what this statement means.

This machine was about 1 month old with 97 hours. The county could have purchased anything they wanted. Like I mentioned we will wait for the final verdict,until all facts are known I will not jump to conclusions.

 

[OCR]

Cat m wreck:

My duck has cruise control but flat out I'm only doing 30kph

For the rest of us... that would be about 18.6 MPH...

Hi Rob... how you doing?... :waving


OCR...

 

[ovrszd]

Since this seems to be a lottery to guess what happened and just like Butts, everyone's got an opinion, I'll offer mine.

I don't think he was pushing snow because there's none on the bridge deck. Also no leftover windrow of dirt/gravel.

I don't think he was going fast at all. Maybe walking speed or a little above at best. I base that on the minimal damage to the machine, didn't even break off the front lights. I credit the cab being leaned back to the shape of the ditch it fell in and the idea that it went off the bridge rear tires first. If he had erroneously steered hard left it would have taken more of a nose dive. The bolts that were holding the railing on aren't bent over toward the forward end of the machine like they would be with forward momentum.

The bridge railing appears to be wooden. By going off rear first the blade pushed the railing ahead of the machine and didn't even break a lot of the rail boards.

I think he drove the front tires onto the bridge with his left tire just missing the bridge marker sign at the approach with the grader tracking straight. Doing so to clear the right side railing with the blade. The front rear tandem tire would go onto the bridge about the same time as the right end of the blade. At the last second he thought he was going to hit the right railing and spontaneously twisted the rear steer to clear the marker. Or could have possibly mistakenly twisted the wrong joystick in an attempt to rotate the table.

With a very weak railing design the bridge did nothing to deter the machine from driving off the concrete deck. Once the rear tires started off the edge there would be little that could be done to retrieve it. With his blade low to the ground it became a steel runner and contributed further to the rear of the machine taking a hard left turn.

Someone commented about other operators having ran off the road. One time I was pushing snow and running about 14 mph. I came to a hard right turn on a narrow gravel road that was frozen solid. I had my moldboard turned to roll snow to the right. When I approached the curve and started my turn the front wheels started slipping. The locker was on. The machine only made a slight attempt to turn. Within a second I was doing a front wheels cramped, 14 mph slide, headed for the bank off the outside of the curve. A lot of things go thru your mind in that second and most of them are wrong. All I could make myself do was jam the blade into the roadbed, thinking it would stop me. What it actually did was lift the weight off the tires and I found myself skidding on a 14ft steel runner. I went off the road and down the bank stopping in a flat bean field. After I cleaned the seat I turned off the locker, lifted the blade and drove back up onto the roadbed. I was a lot more cautious the rest of that night.

 

[66ken]

6th gear, aprox 14 mph. 28' road, 20' bridge.

 

[ovrszd]

Dang it, I suppose I don't win the lottery either??

But which tire went off first???

 

[66ken]

Dang it, I suppose I don't win the lottery either??

But which tire went off first???

Sorry, I don't know the answer.

 

[ovrszd]

Since this is simply a speculation, not pointing fingers, simply making a comment.

When I look at the first picture I do not see any sign of striking the ground at speed. No skid marks down the bank behind the machine, no sign of the left end of the blade gouging into the ground, no scuff marks on the sides of the tires/wheels as if they skidded on the ground.

Hmmmmmm. Would it be possible for this machine to start this crash at 14mph and lose all that forward speed before it struck the bottom of the ditch?? Hmmmm.

Maybe some of the techno guys can answer this. Is it possible to retrieve data from the computer indicating the gear and speed of travel just prior to the crash?? If so would it also be possible to retrieve each of the requests the computer received just prior to crash?? :beatsme