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Cat d5h transmission problem

Henk Erasmus

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
8
Location
South Africa
Hi anyone ! I have been struggling with this cat d5h transmission. The machine works very well while the temp is still cold. As soon as the transmission temp gets to normal or above, it won't select 1st gear. 2nd and 3rd works fine. It has damaged the 1st gear ring seal 3 times now that have been replaced. I have replaced the transmission pump, overhauled all valves and brakes. What else can i look for? Any help will be very appreciated. Henk
 

Nige

Senior Member
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Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,750
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
It has damaged the 1st gear ring seal 3 times now that have been replaced.
Do you mean that you have removed and disassembled the transmission 3 times..?

Did you do any pressure testing of the transmission at any time..? If so what were the results..?

To get the correct technical/test & adjust specifications please post your machine Serial Number.
 

Multiracer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
330
Location
Northern,Ohio
Occupation
Owner/ operator
Pressure test is the number one tool to diagnose the situation. Follow what Nige recommends.
I just did my D6H this past summer. Once we tested all pressures we knew where to look once the trans came out.
 

Henk Erasmus

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
8
Location
South Africa
Nige

Yes the transmission was removed 3 times. The mechanic did take pressures. All the pressures are normal at 250 bar while the oil is still cold, when it warms up the pressure drops to below 100.

I will let you know what the serial no is, I don't have it with me.
 

Henk Erasmus

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
8
Location
South Africa
We use SAE 30 oil. The mechanic also noted that once he stops the engine, the suction pipe at the transmission pump has no oil in it. Once you start up it fills up again. He thinks there could be a leak in a pipe somewhere.
 

Henk Erasmus

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
8
Location
South Africa
Nige

The CAT D5H serial no is 8RC01753 . We have measured the pressures of the transmission. P1 and P2 at the back measures 215 PSI. The pressure at the transmission filter housing measures 40 PSI. I am told the pressure at transmission filter housing should be above 200PSI. The machine works perfect and selects all gears for the first 1h30min then it becomes difficult to select first gear. If you the shift quickly between forward & reverse it selects a gear and works fine until you have to move in the opposite direction, then you start battling selecting the gear again. The transmission temp moves to aprox 3/4 of the gauge. We use normal SAE 30 motor oil in the transmission. I have overhauled the brakes, priority valve and the control valve and fitted a new pump but still have the same problem.

Any suggestions please!!!!!!
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
Messages
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
I think you need to do the pressure measurements again. P2 (Direction Clutch) pressure should always measure around 55psi less than P1 (Speed Clutch) pressure. The specification for P1 is 370+/-15psi with the oil at normal operating temperature, the transmission in 3rd speed forward or reverse and the engine at full RPM. Therefore P2 should be somewhere in the region of 315psi. Both those numbers are way higher than what you say you have measured. I'm also doubtful of the location where these pressures were measured because you mentioned "the back" yet the pressure taps for P1 & P2 are on the front side of the transmission under the cab floor.

The pressure at the transmission filter housing is really not relevant but in any case it should not be as high as 200psi otherwise it would blow the filter apart. If you want to measure transmission lubrication pressure the tap is on the front of the transmission directly below the taps for P1 & P2. With oil at normal operating temperature and the engine at High Idle the specification is 19+/-4.5psi and at Low Idle it should be a minimum of 1.5psi.

If you would like a complete copy of the testing procedure which includes the full range of both transmission and torque converter pressures then drop me a PM with your email address.

From your posts it would seem as though what you are being told (by the mechanic?) appears to be completely at odds with the machine test specifications. I think you need to either change your mechanic or get hold of the right information and so be the one telling him what to do rather than the other way around.

You operating symptoms give me every indication that you have an internal leak somewhere which will obviously increase as the oil gets hotter and its viscosity falls. The fact you have replaced so many clutch piston seals (and even though you are using the wrong oil) could potentially indicate wear in either the clutch piston housing or maybe even the piston itself, or both. I am assuming that is the seal you refer to when you said in your OP ..........
It has damaged the 1st gear ring seal 3 times now
......... correct..?

Lastly you are using an incorrect oil. The SAE30 viscosity is correct but the oil should meet Caterpillar TO-4 specification for use in powershift transmissions which contains additives compatible with the friction materials used in hydraulically-engaged clutches in a transmission. Normal motor oils do not have said additives and therefore do not meet TO-4 specification. This could (and I say that advisedly) be the root of all your problems but it might take something a bit more complex than an oil and filter change to put things right now they are so screwed up.
 
Last edited:

Mark250

Senior Member
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Aug 30, 2015
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1,243
Location
victoria,Australia
Occupation
heavy equipment technician
I'm also doubtful of the location where these pressures were measured because you mentioned "the back" yet the pressure taps for P1 & P2 are on the front side of the transmission under the cab floor.

D5H trans test points.jpg

P1 and P2 test points circled. trans lube is plug at bottom right of photo

Mark
 

kemark

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
10
Location
Brzeg
Hi Henk, Have you found the cause of the transmission problems? I have the same problem, and I don't know where to look. Maybe you can help me and share information.
 

ugis

Active Member
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Jun 20, 2021
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31
Location
Latvia
I suggest you try to contact Henk via his email he mentioned above. You probably won't meet him here since he last logged in in 2016.
 

Nige

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Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,750
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Hi Henk, Have you found the cause of the transmission problems? I have the same problem, and I don't know where to look. Maybe you can help me and share information.
It is unlikely he will reply, he has not been seen on the forum for over 5 years.........

Start with the basics.
Machine Serial Number, symptoms, what have you done so far to diagnose the problem, etc, etc.
 

kemark

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
10
Location
Brzeg
1DD06056 TRANS 3BX01954

PROBLEM: After heating the oil, the transmission stops driving

I measured the pressure P2 after heating up to a maximum of 3 bars.
I replaced all the seals on the clutches.

the bulldozer drives normally for about an hour, after which it stops driving. Tomorrow I'm going to take the pressure again.
 

Nige

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Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,750
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Does the transmission stop driving completely in all gears.?
Or does the transmission only stop driving in a certain speed (e.g. 1st speed both forward and reverse), in all forward speeds only, or in all reverse speeds only.?

Do the pressure measurements in psi or kPa please. See attached for the pressure testing procedure.

Also I suggest checking pump pressure (at the transmission filter housing), P1 (speed clutch), and P2 (direction clutch) pressure with both cold oil and hot oil even though the testing procedure says to do the checks with the oil at normal operating temperature.
 

Attachments

  • SENR3256 Test & Adjust.pdf
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