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CAT 963 - Right Machine?

BackertheBiker

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Aug 1, 2023
Messages
80
Location
Indiana
I'd suspect it's 24 volt with 2 batteries? Then the negative on 1 battery is connected to the positive on the other so it may be the positive current flow is actually arcing. Fix it so the door can't hit the battery post or cable connection. You don't want to fry any of the electrics or electronics. My battery cover is very close to the top of the battery so I have a thick piece of rubber over the top of the battery posts.

You are correct. I did a little more looking tonight, and there’s another battery on the opposite side of the machine that I didn’t see in the dark the other night. All makes sense now.

It's a pretty quick learning curve. If you ever can't get it out and you need someone with bigger machines on-site you won't be happy. I know ofa guy that lost his 53 that way. It settled on in during the night. 4 machines to get it out and the motor was ruined.
I
Rule of thumb is if you feel it slow down you better watch out.

I would avoid all the wet areas it not worth it. Those lovely videos of dozers cleaning mucky lake bottoms on YouTube can make it easy to loose perspective. They normally have rescue equipment on site and know when to hook it up.

One of the worst things is taking out a stump and falling in the wet hole or jambing the stump and it grabbing the skid plates and making you high center.

I have spent a LOT of money on recovery gear and big winches.

I appreciate the wisdom. I learned a lesson last night - we’ll see if it sticks with me. I can be a slow learner in these regards sometimes..

To be clear, it wasn’t mucky on top. It all seemed dry. But it was awful soft underneath.. I have plenty of dry area to work in for now - will get into this area again when it’s good and dry..

Still curious about the drive disparity mentioned above if anyone has any info on that for this machine.
 

Georgia Iron

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Concrete building slab and grading contractor
You are correct. I did a little more looking tonight, and there’s another battery on the opposite side of the machine that I didn’t see in the dark the other night. All makes sense now.



I appreciate the wisdom. I learned a lesson last night - we’ll see if it sticks with me. I can be a slow learner in these regards sometimes..

To be clear, it wasn’t mucky on top. It all seemed dry. But it was awful soft underneath.. I have plenty of dry area to work in for now - will get into this area again when it’s good and dry..

Still curious about the drive disparity mentioned above if anyone has any info on that for this machine.
Check that your foot pedals are not corroded and that the tightness is the same on them
 

BackertheBiker

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Aug 1, 2023
Messages
80
Location
Indiana
The cab is clean, pedals operate smoothly, the right pedal might feel a little easier to press but not significantly. I'll just have to dig in a little bit and learn what makes them tick.. I was just thinking that, with the pedals completely not pressed, the machine should track fairly straight forward, and maybe the weak turning would be related to not tracking straight. Seems like the left track just moves a little weaker than the right.
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
The cab is clean, pedals operate smoothly, the right pedal might feel a little easier to press but not significantly. I'll just have to dig in a little bit and learn what makes them tick.. I was just thinking that, with the pedals completely not pressed, the machine should track fairly straight forward, and maybe the weak turning would be related to not tracking straight. Seems like the left track just moves a little weaker than the right.
I forget. Is this your machine now or is it a loaner.?
The reason I ask is that it is an early hydrostatic-drive loader model with all-mechanical controls for the drive system. Later models have electronic controls and can be calibrated. Attempting to set up a mechanical hystat system with no prior experience is not recommended. Even experienced technical people shy away from them. I will defer to the expert on these machines @Cmark to give you more info.

Having said the above it could be nothing more serious that internal leakages in control lines requiring new seals.
 

BackertheBiker

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Aug 1, 2023
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80
Location
Indiana
It’s a loaner from a friend, who probably doesn’t pay attention to anything on the machine himself, but pays an experienced mechanic to service it occasionally. However, they aren’t doing a great job or haven’t done it recently. I resisted playing around more tonight, and did some work on the machine instead.

I found that the hydraulic fluid was considerably low. I dumped a nearly full 5 gallon bucket in, and it still doesn’t register on the sight glass. I’m surprised the hydraulics worked at all.

The bucket tilt was backward from what I’m used to in my TLB - the 963 was set up that you push forward on the lever and the bucket tilted back. Pull back on the lever and the bucket tilted forward.. Couldn’t get used to that, so I swapped lines tonight.

Pulled the access panels under the cab open to see what I could learn. I assume the sight glass forward of the engine is for the drive system? It too, showed no fluid in the sight window. It wasn’t sitting quite level when I looked, but not far off and leaning toward the side of the sight glass, so I would have expected if anything it would have shown high. I’ll get it on flat ground tomorrow and check again, but I imagine it needs a lot of oil too. And from a quick search here I believe Nige is saying I’ll need 10w hydraulic oil, same as hydraulic system? The silver fill cap appears to lead to this sight window - anyone know what the red fill cap goes to? And where I check that level? I can look more tomorrow, just ran out of time tonight..


IMG_1917.jpeg

IMG_1914.jpeg


I guess let me ask this.. If I just deal with the machine pulling to one side, and not turning well while backing up (it seems to do just fine going forward) am I going to screw something up? At the end of July it’ll be going back to its rightful owner - I just want it to make it through my lake build. Or if I can fix something without a mountain of effort or money, I want to do that for my buddy - least I can do to repay him for use of the machine. Just don’t want something to get considerably worse while I have it, because of me not taking care of a problem.

I also have a track tensioner that doesn’t seem to be holding tension. Will try to put some grease in that tomorrow, but I assume it may need rebuilt. Seemed adjusted well when I got it - it’s slowly losing tension.

Got a few things to do before I really get going here, but overall the machine seems to be in good shape.
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Attached is some stuff you may find helpful. If you have any other questions after going through it please ask

Oil for the pump drive box, hydrostatic transmission, and implement hydraulic system should all the the same SAE10W hydraulic oil for your location.

I would suggest you ask your friend what he uses in the final drives but by the book it should be an SAE50 oil meeting Cat TO-4 specification.
 

Attachments

  • O&M.pdf
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BackertheBiker

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Nige I’ve read a lot of threads on here, and you’re just some kind of super human - knowledgeable about everything and always willing to help. Can’t express enough what an asset you are - to the world. We’d all be better off if we would all take on a portion of your attitude and work ethic. Thanks.

I’m sure my friend doesn’t know what a final drive is. I’ll see if I can talk to his mechanic.
 

Nige

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I’m sure my friend doesn’t know what a final drive is. I’ll see if I can talk to his mechanic.
He probably uses EP90 gear oil or similar. If you have to top it up you really should use the same, despite it not being the recommended oil.

I forgot to mention that SAE10W TO-4 oil could also be used wherever the manual calls for 10W hydraulic oil.
 

Cmark

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Jan 2, 2009
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Australia
The red filler cap is for the splitter box. There should be a dipstick under it.

I would like to suggest you do the checks I wrote about on page 2 of this thread and report back.

If you're keen to shortcut the troubleshooting process, your problem sound like it may be similar to this one.
 

BackertheBiker

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Aug 1, 2023
Messages
80
Location
Indiana
The red filler cap is for the splitter box. There should be a dipstick under it.

I would like to suggest you do the checks I wrote about on page 2 of this thread and report back.

If you're keen to shortcut the troubleshooting process, your problem sound like it may be similar to this one.

At high idle, on solid level ground, both tracks start moving at the same time going forward or reverse, even at the slightest movement. I did notice when I was hung up in the mud the other day, and there was basically no weight on the tracks, moving FNR forward, right track moves slightly before the left. Didn’t take much more movement of FNR for the left to start, but it was a slight bit behind. On solid ground though, no difference.

At medium slow speed. Push left pedal slowly, it will turn slowly, both tracks still driving. Push left pedal more, left track will stop. To the floor, left track counter-rotate. Same in reverse.

At medium slow speed moving forward, push right pedal slowly, it turns right, both tracks still driving. Push right pedal more, right track will stop, and push further it will counter steer. In reverse however, push right pedal a little, and it doesn’t seem to do anything. Just keeps driving backward. In-fact, sometimes at just the right amount of reverse on the FNR, it will actually steer the wrong way - left track stops, and right track continues to power backward. However, give it a little more lever and it turns correctly. It’s only at the first 1/4 of reverse travel on the lever that it acts up.

And this is all true of any RPM. Basically machine does all movements as expected, except with low speed reverse request on the FNR, using right pedal, regardless of throttle or RPM, that is the only place it malfunctions.

So basically while digging tonight, I simply had to commit to hard right turns when in reverse. Give it enough FNR and it behaves pretty nicely.

Machine seems to move forward about as fast as it should. Brisk walk / slow jog. I could outrun it for 30 ft until I ran out of breath..

Engine does not bog at full speed at all. I’ve been hauling heaping buckets of coal shale up a 14% grade and it does bog and slow, but still keeps a respectable pace up the hill. Also with a load like that, it seems to pull less hard to the left.

Machine pulls to the left when going forward, and backward. Slow speed, high speed, seems to be consistent no matter the speed. I’d say by 100 feet I’m facing 10 degrees to the left and 10’ off my original center line.

Slam into neutral or slam center brake - does not lurch to either side - it stops evenly.

Driving into a pile, the tracks will spin and engine will load up but stay revved. Pulling up on the bucket and still moving forward, RPM’s drop but engine pulls strong / have to completely load up hydraulics to bog engine.

Park on a hill, put in neutral, doesn’t move. I did notice it will roll back a little on a hill before going forward, when slowly pulling FNR forward.

Filled the transmission up tonight with $100 of TO-4 and moved a bunch of dirt with it - everything else seems pretty solid, and this track travel issue is not a show stopper, so long as I’m not going to ruin the machine further by running it like this for a couple hundred hours
 

Cmark

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Australia
On the whole, it sounds like it's running pretty good for an old girl.

Because the right pedal functions OK in FWD, that would seem to eliminate the external linkages from the problem. Not that you shouldn't check/lubricate/repair them as necessary of course.

If you're keen to get to the bottom of this, you're going to have to remove the lid from the tranny and inspect the internal linkages and flexible servo lines. If as you say, it's not a show stopper, I don't think you're going to damage anything by running it.

How's your overall mechanical repair skills? If you intend to get into it, I would say you need to be at maybe a 3 out of 5 level.
 

BackertheBiker

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Indiana
On the whole, it sounds like it's running pretty good for an old girl.

Because the right pedal functions OK in FWD, that would seem to eliminate the external linkages from the problem. Not that you shouldn't check/lubricate/repair them as necessary of course.

If you're keen to get to the bottom of this, you're going to have to remove the lid from the tranny and inspect the internal linkages and flexible servo lines. If as you say, it's not a show stopper, I don't think you're going to damage anything by running it.

How's your overall mechanical repair skills? If you intend to get into it, I would say you need to be at maybe a 3 out of 5 level.

Cmark, thank you so much. I’m confident I could get in there and figure things out. I’m also confident I don’t want to if I don’t have to. We’re gonna run ‘er and so long as it doesn’t get worse, we’re just going to build a lake here!

Thanks everyone! I’ll be following up with pics of the progress!
 

Nige

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This has all been completed except final drives - will be checking those today since it poured rain over night.
Find out what oil is in them before you go adding, if necessary of course.
If there is EP Gear oil in them you ought to be able to detect it. To me it smells like rotten eggs, or at least whiffs heavily of sulphur.
 

BackertheBiker

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Ok next hurdle here.. Started messing with the right side track tensioner - it’s been losing tension slowly as I run it. Opened the lid, put a grease gun on it, can’t get it to connect well enough to get any grease in it. The grease just squirts out the sides - it doesn’t build pressure or anything, so it’s not like it’s clogged. Seems the zerk is worn out and needs replaced.

So I finagle a wrench in there and get the zerk loose, but it won’t come all the way out. It hits the guard over the top of it - the zerk is bigger than the hole in the guard. I can’t seem to figure out if the guard comes off? There are 4 bolts between the guard and the housing it butts up against - do I remove these bolts, and that does something for me? Seems like a really poor setup - should be easy to replace a grease zerk.. Anybody familiar and know what to do?

Btw, talked to my buddy about this tensioner. He said he’s been pulling the front idler out with a backhoe, then he can get grease to go into the tensioner So I’m thinking it might hold tension if I can get it to hold grease, instead of just creating a void in the cylinder.. Goodness, it’s a wonder this machine is running at all

IMG_1943.jpeg


IMG_1941.jpeg
 

CM1995

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Here's a part diagram on the tensioner from a 953 BBX series. It should be similar.

953 idler grease fitting.jpg

I've had to replace the grease zerk on our 953 and the plate does have to come off. Be warned it's a mess.
 

BackertheBiker

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Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
80
Location
Indiana
Here's a part diagram on the tensioner from a 953 BBX series. It should be similar.

View attachment 313243

I've had to replace the grease zerk on our 953 and the plate does have to come off. Be warned it's a mess.

Thanks! I’m afraid it’s different than this diagram.

No worries though. I’m picked up a high-grip grease gun tip, and it took grease and tightened right up! Raining today, so we’ll have to wait to see if it’s going to hold tension.
 
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