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Cat 951-C in my sights

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by Nitelite, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    I am kind of thinking overhaul. In frame about $500.00 in parts if the crank shaft is ok. I have the tools and the time. I know that DMiller is right about the blowby.
     
  2. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    Nitelite, today as it was pi##ing down with rain instead of working on a Crusher outside I changed tack and headed for the little CAT, this shovel has been driven into a Barn for a bit of a fettle up, its copped the same sickness as your chariot with black gunk firing out of the smoke stack, anyhow things sort of started off with a wet patch around the hydraulic tank that needed a look at, so I cut a bit of angle iron to 32 1/2" long to stuff into the hoist cylinder on full lick, then pumped out the hydraulic tank and popped the front of the tank off for a look see on the leak, in amongst this I thought stuff it lets have a look in the engine as its runs a bit crap, the bonnet (Hood) is some heavy pig to lift and is better done with 2 or 3 people they are just sort of tricky, I did look at a few items 1 being the valve lash that was set with plenty of daylight to be found, due to the owners request I am going to pop off the front nose group (Rad) as he is keen to have this section steam cleaned, if it is still raining tomorrow I will have the motor stripped pistons and liners wise and possibly price up enough parts to put the bark back into the beast, so will post stuff soon.
    tctractors
     
  3. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    Thanks Tony, post plenty of pictures of the motor overhaul if you get the chance. I am almost certain that I will be doing about the same job sooner or later. I can handle the weight of the hood and the engine head with my trusty McCormick farm tractor/ front end loader. It will hoist 6,000 LBS. I may be able to use the tractor lift to remove the ROPS on the 951. If it the tractor can lift high enough I indeed can use it remove the ROPS, then I can get the 951 inside the shop to do the work.

    The cost of the kit to overhaul a 3304 is cheap enough here in the US also.

    Thanks for your reply and stay dry!
     
  4. cat951

    cat951 Member

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    hello,
    I also have a 951c, after some repairs (fuel injection pump, prisoners exhaust manifold, starter, etc. ..) I have started many times the motor without load. After changing the exhaust studs and gaskets, I did keep the engine at idle for 10min to seat the parts and I noticed a bit of oil from the exhaust exit (less than that of your loader). Then I worked with the loader, putting it under heavy load and has not lost much oil.
     
  5. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    Thanks for the reply cat 951. I really do like the old 951C, if for no other reason, just because it looks good. Did your manifold studs break off when you tried to remove them?
     
  6. cat951

    cat951 Member

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    Hello Nelite ,
    it is true the 951c is a nice loader! But the 955L ( maybe series 13x/8y ) is even better!
    However, replace the exhaust studs of my loader was easier than expected .
    Three were easily unscrewed without problems.
    For the other five I have thought a lot about what was the best method , because the studs were very much corroded !
    I did the following:
    - With the angle grinder, I cut all the nuts on the studs. I then removed the exhaust manifold from the cylinder head without unscrewing the studs. In this way the threads has no longer load and should unscrew easily .
    - On stumps of studs I welded the nuts, so to heat the studs to take it to the red (be careful not to melt them!!) .
    - After about 30 seconds, while the tool was acting on the welded nut, I sprayed a little wd40 on the threads of the studs.
    One did not want to come loose and it broke the weld flush with the head, I tried again , but first I soldered a washer because it is thinner than the nut and the welding is better, I welded a nut on the latter and this is unscrewed.

    - Magically have unscrewed all, and I have not had to make any hole!
    IMAG0131_800x531.jpg IMAG0124_800x531.jpg IMAG0125_800x531.jpg

    I hope this helps , my loader after replacing all exhaust seals, welded manifold and home made muffler makes a roar like when my dad bought it new !
    The 951c is a good loader, strong and reliable, my father made ‚Äč‚Äčabout 14,000 hours, now has about 3500 hours on the engine and 80% undercarriage. We have the newest and most versatile machine, but sometimes it's a pleasure start the old alcoholic:drinkup 3304 Cat diesel!
    IMAG0291a_575x600.jpg
    Need some stickers and fresh paint..
     
  7. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Just about the same deal as the 3306 I did a couple years back. Nice thing about weld not sticking to the cast of the head. It's always nice when a plan come together like that:drinkup
     
  8. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    I removed the exhaust manifold on the dump truck, (posted earlier in this post), using just about the same procedure except instead of using a angle grinder I used a torch to cut the nuts off of the studs and the heads off of the bolts. Access was too tight to use a grinder. After cutting the nuts and bolt heads I pulled the manifold until it contacted the truck frame and then had to cut everything a second time between the manifold and the engine head. I only had to drill 1 hole and then chase the original threads with a tap. Close quarters required an angle drill. Assessing the job, having a good plan, and then some good luck upon execution of the plan can save hours of miserable drilling and tapping.

    I have yet to finish the brake job on the dump truck because of waiting on parts and mostly the weather, but I have already started shooting the exhaust manifold studs on the 951C with PB Blaster. I think that NAPA carries the new studs.

    It was sleeting and snowing today. I finished the front brakes before I got too cold and too wet to work outside. After drying off and changing clothes I turned the heat on in the shop and finished the overhaul and reseal of my 45 year old Hein Warner 4 ton floor jack. Works like new again. The last time that I used that jack was about 1971, more than 40 years ago. I jacked up one side of a friend's John Deere dozer to replace a broken sprocket bolt. I think the old dozer was 1010, powered by a 2 cylinder diesel. The jack did the job all right, but before I got the sprocket repaired the jack blew the seals. I put off repairing the jack and now, somehow, 40 years have gotten by. It will be perfect for lifting the dump truck.
     
  9. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    Nice looking loader cat951 and thanks for the pictures. I can see that those old studs were subject to breaking off.
     
  10. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    A good method of getting broken studs out of a head (or anywhere else for that matter) is to melt some candle wax on to the threads while the stud is cooling after welding the nut in place. The wax "wicks" into the thread in the cylinder head and usually the studs come out as easy as pie.
     
  11. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    Nitelite, if you inspect your oil cooler (engine oil) if its around the 40% mark blocked the pistons will have picked up some, although its not in your parts book the piston spray jets off the main bearings would not be cooling the cylinder area enough, I would think you will find no2 and 4 cylinder with rings stuck in the groves leading to the slobber effect, you might have to unbolt the engine mountings and the drive couplings to bar up the engine 10 mm to remove the sump (Plate) this will also need the removal of all the under guards (Belly plates) to get to the sump plate bolts, the cylinder head is not heavy and can be lifted off by yourself after the inlet and exhaust are stripped off, if the pistons have picked up the small end bearings might have spat the dummy out also, these will need replacing and honeing to size.
     
  12. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    I suspect that you are right about the slobbering 951

    I am still tied up working on the dump truck as the weather permits and parts arrive. On top of the brake shoes and wheel cylinders I have run into bad bearings, front and rear. I am replacing all rubber lines and making up some new steel lines. Then the master cylinder needs attention and I hope the hydravac unit is as ok as it seems to be.

    This freeze and thaw weather is creating muddy and rotten ground conditions around my work site. The dump truck is sitting on 4 jack stands in all of that mud. I know that the stands are settling unevenly. I am using the 951C loader bucket under the rear of the truck as a safety in case the two rear jack stands fail. If I don't get the rest of the parts soon, I will also need to put the D4E dozer blade under the front of the truck as a safety to back up the front two jack stands in case they fail.

    When I get the wheels back on the dump truck that will free up the loader. Then I will be able to look into the slobbering problem and address what tctractors and everyone else here on the forum has suggested. I will be out of town the last ten days of the month so it will be the first week in February, weather permitting, before I get back to work on the Cat. If my farm tractor will lift high enough, I can remove the ROPS and get the machine inside the shop. That just might be time well spent.
     
  13. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    Just sitting around in this cold weather and got a chance to do some thinking. When I bought my first Cat, the D4E, (27X - W/ 3304 engine), about mid year 2012 the previous owner suggested that I pour 1 quart of outboard motor oil in every tank of diesel fuel. I followed his advice and the old girl seems to do just fine on the mixture.

    When I bought the 951C, (86J - W/3304 engine) later on in 2012, I just mixed the outboard oil with the fuel, same as with the D4. I didn't measure anything, not knowing exactly how much fuel was in the machine before topping the tank off. Now I am wondering, could that mixture be the cause of the slobbering? Due to the freezing cold wet weather and mid day thaw I have not been able to really run the machine.

    I just read, on the dozer thread I think, that motor oil mixed with diesel fuel does not burn as hot nor as complete as does fuel oil. I may have caused the slobber problem. What are your thoughts?
     
  14. spitzair

    spitzair Senior Member

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    I doubt that would cause the slobbering but I've been wrong many times... The oil will help lubricate your injection system components as lately they've taken sulphur out of the diesel fuel and some older equipment needs some kind of lubrication in the fuel to keep injection system components happy... If and when it gets warm out again, take the machine out and work it hard for a few hours and see if the problem goes away.
     
  15. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    20140120_155517.jpg 20140120_155424.jpg

    Thanks spitzair, From what I have read on other threads there seems to be differing opinions on the oil mix. The old girl really cold starts good. If it is freezing I give her about 45 seconds on the glow plugs and a small snort. Above freezing she'll go on the glow plugs alone with about a minute and a half. I think the risk of using small snort needs to be weighed against the cost of a starter.

    In the pictures you can see that I made it a little easier to shoot the either into the air cleaner. I installed the valve and use a thick rubber washer under the wing nut to keep water from going into the filter compartment.

    Right now I am just using the machine for an expensive jack. I expect the rest of the brake parts for the dump truck to be in this week. I will be glad to get the truck brakes finished and the truck sitting back on the ground.
     
  16. spitzair

    spitzair Senior Member

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    That's a nice clever little mod you made there! On my 977Hs the air cleaner is kinda right beside the operator on the left side and easy to squirt some juice in there. It takes a while to travel to the engine so it gets fairly evenly distributed amongst the cylinders by the time it gets there, at least that's my theory... If used correctly and sparingly I think it's not a bad thing, and getting a starter in and out of one of these things doesn't look like the most fun project...
     
  17. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    It is easy to spray a shot from the operators seat and just as easy when the either can gets low. A bigger plus is no water running past the wing nut into my intake and air filter.
     
  18. tctractors

    tctractors Senior Member

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    Nitelite, you seem to have pulled up a chair by the fire, so I thought I would put up a bit of script about a 951C that I am tinkering with for a CAT collector, well anyhow in the U.K. tractor shovels are near always found beat up and knackered after a life of Hell, so this little beast has been a tough un' its needed F/Drive work, track frames swapping out after the welds were ground off as bolts seemed to be to much trouble, then the recoils needed lots of stuff doing to them, I also noticed the engine was not sounding like a "CAT" and slobbering a bit, so I popped the head off to take a peep inside its innards, it looked a bit mank so I popped the engine out and things sort of went off deeper with the crank sitting on the healing bench, I also popped open the hydraulic tank, well the oil was out of it so its silly not to check things out as the return to dig slave piston was stuck anyhow, I might put up a few snaps to give you a smile,as for your water tap thing in the air filter??? I will reserve any verbs on this bit of vandal damage as you own it.

    hope things are well?? tctractors
     
  19. Nitelite

    Nitelite Senior Member

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    tctractors, you almost hit the nail on the head with me seeming to pull the chair up by the fire. When the temperature went down to below zero degrees I left out! I took the wife and flew down to Charleston South Carolina and boarded a ship bound for Nassau in the Bahama islands. We were gone for two weeks and enjoyed 80 degree weather. There were thirty of us, all veterans and wives who made the trip. I am back to reality now and if the temperature will come up to at least better than freezing tomorrow I might attempt to do some work on the equipment.

    I think that we would all be interested in some snaps of your project shovel.

    As far as the vandalism on my air cleaner box, my take is that Cat would have done well to install the valve as standard equipment on all of its diesel engines. The modification makes an either snort easier from the seat and keeps me from constantly loosing the wing nut.

    Thanks for your post.
     
  20. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    Just caught up on this thread Nitelite and it's nice to see your progress.I read that T.C has figured that your motor is ready for a good rebuild.It's never nice to hear things like that and ,as an owner,we start pulling at straws and hoping it's just something else easier and cheaper to fix.My own experience with T.C is that he has yet to wrong with his diagnostics.
    Last year I was draining the transmission oil out of a D8 and he happened to be walking past and saw the bucket.He didn't even get under to investigate but imformed me later(when I was sitting comfortably) that the steering clutches were coming out!.This was bad news as they were totally rebuilt with new bands and clutches less than 2000 hrs ago and the tractor was steering sound.I choked abit on my Tetley's tea and he told me to take the main suction pipe off.I did.It was full of brakeband......I removed them and found the newish brakebands were of poor quality in the rivet department.We have since rebuilt them.
    I have yet to see him put a foot wrong so you better get some money sorted for the engine rebuild mate.
    Best regards,Nicky.